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Iggy

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Posts posted by Iggy

  1. As many of you know, I just got my boat 3 weeks ago and found many problems.

    The way the cowlings are bolted on was shocking!! I found missing and loose nuts. The 1/4" bolts are glued on and then passed through a 3/4" hole into the hull. No backing or blocks to support it.I replaced the nuts and I was bearly hand tight & I heard a big BANG. The glue let go from the top of the bolt. Chaparral is telling me that this is normal and just fine.

    Is any one else having the same problem?

  2. Sorry, you are missing the point ... it's up there in black and white, and red ... ;)

    Although it is true, the batteries cannot be charged separately, this applies only to charging from engine/alternator ... but then the alternator does not have separate feeds (legs) for each batteries, nor smarts of a dedicated battery charger. No matter how you connect alternator to the batteries, you have the same single feed coming from the alternator. The VSR just helps to automate the process of charging all batteries in sequence, and then keeping them charged while the engine/alternator is running.

    When on shore power, the charging is done by a dedicated battery charger with a separate feed for each battery. The battery charger feeds are not affected by VSR which is inactive unless the start battery isolator switch is on and/or the engine/alternator is running (as per diagram above).

    I guess I am done here as I cannot add anything new to the discussion ... :)

    Forgive me, I am not missing the point.

    As to your "The battery charger feeds are not affected (maybe on our boat) by VSR" not true which is what I have been saying right along. mpm300 even stated "The VSR are active when the shore power is on since the battery charger is putting our voltage" Mine are to and I have been e-mail Chaparral on this point and still out on this with them.

    Also, to your "(as per diagram above)." that is from BEP or some were else. That is not from Chaparrel, I have the diagram from them on my Sig290. If you pm me, I can send them to you.

  3. Look at this gizmo (link below) as it might work if you find a suitable place for you engine and mount on a swim platform. Two things to consider ...

    First, the swim platform has a lip so in order to install it flat and tight you would either have to move it a bit back, or come up with a custom base.

    Second, as per my previous post re strength of swim platform ... have a technician look at your platform and the mount, and assess if the method/location is suitable and safe for the people, boat, and kicker engine.

    With some ingenuity, and proper enforcement and/or backing plates this can work.

    Good luck ... keep us posted!

    As I mentioned, this leads to other problems. As in steering & throttle control.

  4. The advantage of charging each battery seperately comes when the batteries age of different rates and final fully charged voltages. With age & or different capacity batteries 1 charger will always fully charge each different battery.

    Mixing old with new batteries is perfectly O K & safe.

    Hence my point! With the VSR setup they way they are, they can NOT be charged up seperately.

  5. I would simply put a SPST relay to switch from battery to battery. It is fail safe. Only 1 of the 2 batteries can be charged at a time. Never 2 at once.

    Full current & voltage is always available. No isolation diodes or anything else is needed.

    You can add another SPST relay to switch from shore power battery charger or engine alternator D C power. You would simply select which you wanted.

    Sort of true, In most cases, your alternator’s output should equal the maximum available capacity of your battery bank. In other words, if your house battery bank is made up of flooded batteries with an amp-hour capacity rating of 400Ah, the maximum acceptance rate of those batteries would be 25 percent, or 100 amps, the ideal alternator would also be rated at 100 amps. This needs to be taken into account. I have had many boats with a dual system & a battery combiner. so I was charging 2 batteries at the same time.

    Even my new boat, 2 engines with 3 batteries setup from the factory. If I start ether engine first, all 3 batteries will charge up. BUT it goes back to the above formula.

  6. The BOTH switch is to connect the batteries in parallel to start the engine when either battery is too weak.

    The charging schema does not have to follow the same logic. In your case both batteries are wired to charger regardless of which one is providing power to the boat. It makes sense to charge both batteries by default so you do not need to remember which one needs to be charged.

    It depends on what you are talking about!! Off the engine or on shore power. Off the engine with the battery switch set to both, yes both will charge up. But I do agree with the above " charge both batteries by default " so I would install a battery combiner. I would not go by the manual, hence my post on VSR.

  7. I think i understand what you are describing but it is not necessarily the case. This would create a problem only if VSR is actively switching w/out engine/alternator power applied.

    My bet is ... if there is no power coming from the engine/alternator, the VSR is inactive and in its default state: batteries/banks are separated. When shore power/charger is on AND you apply engine/alternator power then there is a problem (indicated by VSR's frequent clicking in my case).

    Yes! I just feel that they should ONLY work when the engine is running. I put 60 hours on my boat last year/season, the boat was on shore power way beyond that using the on board charger.

  8. Interesting topic.

    I had to update my OEM charger with a ProMariner ProNautic 1220P 20A 3-Bank unit when the original died. Like Richard W, I have two batteries, so the third bank of my charger is unused. How difficult would it be to install a second house battery?

    VSR clicking: I have heard it clicking, stared at it, scratched my head, and said WTF. I am very interested to know what this device is supposed to do and if mine is doing it.

    I did install a 2nd house battery with a charging relay & a second charger. I came off the old charger for 110V AC and than took two red 18" jumpers between the new battery to the relay and than to the other house battery. Than I used a yellow 18" jumper and grounded it to one of the other batteries.

    When the 1st house battery see a charge the relays close charging the 2nd battery. At the helm, I have a controll switch to open, close or put it in Auto mode. If I close it, I double my house amps when I am at anchor or on a mooring.

  9. <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Iggy" data-cid="254121" data-time="1368454281">

    <p>I am amazed on the small amounts replays to this. I gusset no one cares about battery management or battery longevity. I called Promariner (the brand of charger I have) and they agree that a 3 legs of the charger should not be connected. </p>

    </blockquote>

    <p> </p>

    <p>I am soo SORRY, I did not make myself clear. ITs NOT that they should not be connented but the VSR shorts them out. So now the charger will work just fine but will treat the 3 batteriers as one big battery.  They said too, than way have a 3 bank charger when a 1 back charger can do the same thing.</p>

    <p> </p>

    <p> </p>

  10. I doubt if salt vs fresh water makes any difference in case of trim tabs. As far as smart vs power tabs, it's your choice. Based on many first hand accounts posted on this forum, the smart tabs are more than enough for your size and weight type of boat.

    If you decide to go with power tabs, most likely you need tabs no larger than 9x12 or 12x9. The 12x12 tabs are for boats LOA up to 30' that can weight 3+ times as much as your boat. See here: http://www.lencomarine.com/index.php/products/trim-tabs/edge-mount

    Yep!

  11. :slap: Paul (Iggy) does not always pay attention before he posts. Something you will have to get use to......

    So true!! Sorry.

    But you would think that the same type of service would be found there too?

    You could add a mounting plate to the swimming platform for a kicker, but that creates other problems. I onced use my inflatable with a 3hp to tow my 23' boat. It was slow but worked.

  12. I am amazed on the small amounts replays to this. I gusset no one cares about battery management or battery longevity. I called Promariner (the brand of charger I have) and they agree that a 3 legs of the charger should not be connected.

  13. I have 2 engines so as a norm 3 batteries. I have 2 VSR, one between each battery. If I start one engine, all 3 charge up. That's great in it self, but were is the boat 80% of the time. Mine is at the slip on shore power.

    AND yes that's why your VSR were clicking, mpm300 stated "The lights ont he VSRs are on when connected to shore power on my boat." They see charge voltage & close. Now the charger can not do its job. All if its charging banks/connections from the charger are all connected together. I am sure if you call ProMariner, (I have there charger) they will tell you the same.

  14. I might not fully understand your install and/or the relay/combiner functionality ... but, wouldn't you have to monitor and remember each battery state, and manage the relay control manually in order to take full advantage of 3 stage charging?

    With two house batteries of same characteristics connected in parallel, you effectively have one bigger battery. Instead of 4 or 6 cells you have 8 or 12 cells connected in parallel ... this is a common approach in all kinds of applications, not just on boats.

    No, the 3 stage charging is automatically done for you. BUT this will not work if your VSR are turned on. All 3 banks and all 3 batteries are in parallel. It will not now which battery to float, give a full charge to or condition. As to the charging relay, I can turn it off, on, or auto mode. Just to note, I put in a separate on board charger for the 4th battery. Since I can turn the charge relay off, its the only battery right now that takes advantage of this.

    As too "With two house batteries of same..............." Yes true, it works, but you do run the risk of one battery going dead bringing the other done too. But the chances are small if you take care of them. But to charge them separately is better, & your only dealing with 4 batteries. Not more in some of these cases.

  15. True ... it happens to be a norm to have each bank of batteries charged off different charger port. It is also a norm to have multiple batteries per bank connected in parallel. As long the batteries in one bank are of same brand, type, and age they discharge at the same rate and recharge at the same rate.

    Otherwise you would be limited to 2 or 3 batteries as this is usually a number of ports on marine chargers.

    You could go fancy and put more chargers and VSRs, double a number of long battery cables and connections, and separate each and every battery. You would also have to split the load into separate circuits if you do not want to connect house batteries in parallel. Too complicated for no apparent gain IMO.

    In using a charge relay/battery combiner you really would not be adding long cables. It should be mounted as close to the batteries as possible. You already need one jump to tie your batteries parallel to each other anyways. One more jumper would be needed.

    And no you would not have to split the load. I now have 2 house batteries and with the charging relay control at the helm. I can combine them at will to double my house amps or to charge that 2nd house battery. You need understand how the 3 stage charger works along with the whole system. If the VSR kick in, than why have a 3 stage charger. Its not going to work.

  16. If you know your right, why bother calling the dealer??

    Wouldn't you want to know his opinion on the why it was wired that way? Maybe, there was a valid reason?

    I am just surprised that no one has questioned it. The dealer said that most boaters don't realize that. They see the charger is on and the batteries are being charged.

  17. Not enough info to comment ... all depends on how many banks and batteries per bank you have or might have.

    Running parallel connection between batteries in the same bank is normal ... maybe this is what the dealer meant?

    Perhaps drawing the entire install schematic would help in making an informed decision.

    Not enough info to comment ... all depends on how many banks and batteries per bank you have or might have.

    Running parallel connection between batteries in the same bank is normal ... maybe this is what the dealer meant?

    Perhaps drawing the entire install schematic would help in making an informed decision.

    I just got the boat, so there is one port engine, one starboard engine and one house. I just add the 2nd house battery with a charging relay. It is not a good idea to leave them in parallel as a norm. Each battery should have it's own leg off the charger as I mentioned. If the VSR are on, than the charger will not know which battery it is looking at. In other words, each leg/bank of the charger is connected to the other. Not good! I had the dealer stumped because he know I was right.

    The VSR should only be on with the engines running. Because no matter which one starts, all the batteries will charge up. You shut the engine down, the VSR open. Now the batteries can be used as intended. This should hold true to the on board charger & even more so!

    I guess know one has brought this to Chaparral's attention?

  18. Sounds like Chap wired the bilge pump wrong. Must be a "Friday" boat.

    Should have 3 wires. One constant live to battery (bypassing switch) so if the float comes up it turns on, One to the switch at helm (that's behind the battery switch) as a manual bypass, and one ground.

    If it doesn't have it like that, make it like that.

    AND I have a Friday boat!!!

  19. I just got my new Sig 290 a few weeks ago. As I was installing a 2nd house battery & charging relay. I noticed that the 2 VSR were on. I was at the slip on shore power. I called the dealer & told him stating that this was not right. He tried to tell me that this is normal, I told him that is was not. I have a 3 bank charger and the VSR are putting the batteries in parallel. How is the charger to know, what battery JUST needs a float charge to one that is 50% drained to one that needs conditioning? Now I had him stumped!! I have a call into Chaparral to see there point of view on this. I am thinking to remove the ground to the VSR and use it as a control wire. If ground is removed they will shut down.

    Has anyone looked into this problem??

  20. I would run antifreeze year round for the lubrication of the water pump. Also, if you run the pink antifreeze for engines, not the stuff for water systems, you will have corrosion inhibitors for an added bonus. If you do decide to run water, at least use distilled water to eliminate mineral deposits.

    Yep! Just like your car.

  21. We added a battery charger to our bowrider, and just plug it in when the boat isn't in use. Its made our batteries last for 4 seasons now, and we were replacing them every other year. We went with the Promariner 2 bank charger, and its worked great. Added water to the batteries 2 weekends ago, and she fired right up over the weekend.

    Yes, I would add a on-board charger. ProMariner makes so of the best around! Also some battery tenders are not automatic, which could over charge your battery in time.

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