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Chaparral vs. other manufacturers in terms of wood usage and rot


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On 10/19/2014 at 9:29 PM, Denny said:

Ok, I'm back. I will do my best to not make a novel out of this. The original owner docked the boat, and said that when he first uncovered the boat that he would smell gas, and then it would disappear. When I got it from him she was 9yrs. old, from then on she was kept on her trailer in my shop, when not in the water, sometimes uncovered. The only place that I would smell gas was in the cabinet under the helm. A Marine Surveyor and boat repairman friend of mine said that it needed to be looked at for safety reasons. My filler and vent hoses are located on the starboard side at the helm. So we removed the cabinet and removed the hose from the filler tube and capped of the vent hose. In this area there is about 3ft. of exposed hose, before it disappears into the floor. We then pressurized the tank and let it set for about 2 hrs. with no drop in pressure, and we could still smell fumes. :scratchchin: I don't remember what triggered me to get out my bottle of soapy water, but while it was still under pressure, I squirted the 3ft of exposed filler hose, and after a minute or so all these tiny little bubbles started to form all over the fill hose. Another thing she would only take about 1 to 1&1/2 gals. and shut off the pump, depending on how fast I was trying to fill her. It would take me about 1/2 hr. to put in 40 gals. So up came the floor and here is what we found.

The fill & vent hoses where run together. They came in at helm level and then laid on the bottom of the hull, at the same level as the bottom of the gas tank, then ran to the back of the boat and came back up to the top of the tank just in front of the engine.

All the foam in that area was soaked with gas. Not only was there always gas in the fill hose, the vent hose was also filled with gas. Filling it was like filling a J-trap---pour in from the top and push it in from the bottom.

And for 9yrs. the original owner made sure that she was topped off for winter storage. :slap:

Issue resolved, new hoses run and attached to bottom of new floor, cured the filling problem and no fuel in fill or vent hoses.

The only time I top her off is when we are going out that day, and never ever for winter storage.

Looking at the photos you can see how long the hoses were, and the arrow shows where the hoses laid.

Now for the good part. Everything was documented and a letter and photos were sent to Chaparral explaining that we felt that it was a manufactures defect, along with a bill for parts, materials, and labor. I told my wife if I could only get my parts and material money back, that I would be happy. Guess what? A few months later I get a phone call from Chaparral offering me a gratuity check, which believe it or not covered my parts and materials. How is that for standing behind your product, :clapsmiley: not to mention that she was 9yrs. old. Thanks to you that stayed with this short novel. Denny.

 

 

Not wanting to steal the thread but I just read Denny's Page 4 discussion about the leaky fill hose.  For whatever reason, I never read this even though it was posted 1 month after my initial post on page 1. The smell of gas vapors was also in my boat but remained mostly under the floor. I don't recall them in the cabinet. With all that wiring behind the helm we are lucky we did fire up beyond the cylinders.

Everything you mentioned above in your post, my boat did that too.  From the ridiculous fill rate [45 to 60 minutes to fill the tank] to constant vapors and no visible leak anywhere. I did repair/reroute my vent line. That seemed to take care of the fill rate problem. No more gas sitting in an 8 foot vent line.  But not the vapors.

2 years ago, I finally installed and rerouted the fill line. I did cut up a part of the floor but I did not pull the whole floor. So far, all is well.  I usually nearly top the tank off before storage but after reading this, I may leave it less than full. It is stored in a barn, a modern barn.

I wish I had read your post 6 years ago. It would have answered all my questions as to "Why is it doing that?

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4 hours ago, Capt.Ken said:

Does anyone know if there is any wood on the very bottom of the hull under the engine compartment. I want to find a location where there is NO wood so I can glass in a transducer for an IN HULL installation, and of course, below the water line.

Thanks, Ken 

What boat do you have and year.

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On 12/20/2020 at 3:35 PM, SST said:

Not wanting to steal the thread but I just read Denny's Page 4 discussion about the leaky fill hose.  For whatever reason, I never read this even though it was posted 1 month after my initial post on page 1. The smell of gas vapors was also in my boat but remained mostly under the floor. I don't recall them in the cabinet. With all that wiring behind the helm we are lucky we did fire up beyond the cylinders.

Everything you mentioned above in your post, my boat did that too.  From the ridiculous fill rate [45 to 60 minutes to fill the tank] to constant vapors and no visible leak anywhere. I did repair/reroute my vent line. That seemed to take care of the fill rate problem. No more gas sitting in an 8 foot vent line.  But not the vapors.

2 years ago, I finally installed and rerouted the fill line. I did cut up a part of the floor but I did not pull the whole floor. So far, all is well.  I usually nearly top the tank off before storage but after reading this, I may leave it less than full. It is stored in a barn, a modern barn.

I wish I had read your post 6 years ago. It would have answered all my questions as to "Why is it doing that?

How are your new vent and fill hoses' run now in relationship to your gas tank?  Denny.

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On 12/20/2020 at 10:54 AM, Capt.Ken said:

Does anyone know if there is any wood on the very bottom of the hull under the engine compartment. I want to find a location where there is NO wood so I can glass in a transducer for an IN HULL installation, and of course, below the water line.

Thanks, Ken 

What boat? Typically single engine Chaps do not have any wood in the center of the bilge, while cruisers have a keel stringer in order to provide a flat bilge floor and add stiffness to the structure. 

 

Transducers are typically mounted just forward of the engine and just off to the starboard side from what I have seen.

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@Denny"How are your new vent and fill hoses' run now in relationship to your gas tank?  Denny."

 

For the vent line, the shop disconnected the line at both ends. The tank flange and the thru hull vent.  In its place, he ran a hose from the tank flange directly towards the back side of the cabinet[under the floor] and up to the thru hull vent [with a loop]. This coming season, I think I need to adjust that loop and see if I can raise it into a higher position.

Like I said above, I didn't know about your post above and therefore was unaware of the leaky hose and foam like a sponge. Rerouting was easier than pulling up the whole floor.

From the thru hull filler, the hose goes diagonally down about 8 inches and then bends towards the stern. I cut a hole just above where the shelf meets the cabinet wall. The hose is suspended above the shelf and remains hidden between the hull and the inner wall. Where all the wiring goes.

Just before the starboard step, the hose curves down and goes through the shelf.  At this point, it was needed to cut a section of the floor out so as to reroute the new hose along with removing about 15 inches of the old hose. I carefully made the cut so as to preserve the original carpet which is still in use when the floor was put back in place. BTW, all original wood was put back in place. No rot....anywhere.

To prevent chafing where the hose goes through a wooden hole, large rubber O-rings where glued in place and the hose sits on the O-ring.

I can now fill this faster than ever. But the quirk of this modification is that without dead rise, it tends to spit out fuel from the vent line when it reaches full. When the gas pump clicks, I stop fueling. Anything more and gas comes out the vent.  The thru hull vent is lower than the thru hull filler. This is why I need to check the vent line loop behind the instrument panel to see if the loop can be raised higher.

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Capt Ken, I can tell you my 2000 Sig260 has balsa core in the hull forward of the motor and up to the cabin area.  I have replaced the factory in-hull depth sounder, head seacock under the cabin steps, and added a air conditioner seacock in the bilge.  All required removing the inner core and filling with six10 epoxy.

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8 hours ago, SST said:

@Denny"How are your new vent and fill hoses' run now in relationship to your gas tank?  Denny."

 

For the vent line, the shop disconnected the line at both ends. The tank flange and the thru hull vent.  In its place, he ran a hose from the tank flange directly towards the back side of the cabinet[under the floor] and up to the thru hull vent [with a loop]. This coming season, I think I need to adjust that loop and see if I can raise it into a higher position.

Like I said above, I didn't know about your post above and therefore was unaware of the leaky hose and foam like a sponge. Rerouting was easier than pulling up the whole floor.

From the thru hull filler, the hose goes diagonally down about 8 inches and then bends towards the stern. I cut a hole just above where the shelf meets the cabinet wall. The hose is suspended above the shelf and remains hidden between the hull and the inner wall. Where all the wiring goes.

Just before the starboard step, the hose curves down and goes through the shelf.  At this point, it was needed to cut a section of the floor out so as to reroute the new hose along with removing about 15 inches of the old hose. I carefully made the cut so as to preserve the original carpet which is still in use when the floor was put back in place. BTW, all original wood was put back in place. No rot....anywhere.

To prevent chafing where the hose goes through a wooden hole, large rubber O-rings where glued in place and the hose sits on the O-ring.

I can now fill this faster than ever. But the quirk of this modification is that without dead rise, it tends to spit out fuel from the vent line when it reaches full. When the gas pump clicks, I stop fueling. Anything more and gas comes out the vent.  The thru hull vent is lower than the thru hull filler. This is why I need to check the vent line loop behind the instrument panel to see if the loop can be raised higher.

The main key is make sure that the bottom edges of the fill and vent  hoses are above the top of the gas tank. That way there will be no fuel in either.

As far as gas coming out the vent, that is determined by the pressure produced by the gas pump, sometimes gas will come out my vent. 

Maybe the outside temp, or time of day will factor in.  Denny.

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14 hours ago, Denny said:

The main key is make sure that the bottom edges of the fill and vent  hoses are above the top of the gas tank. That way there will be no fuel in either.

As far as gas coming out the vent, that is determined by the pressure produced by the gas pump, sometimes gas will come out my vent. 

Maybe the outside temp, or time of day will factor in.  Denny.

No modifications have been made to the attach points. All are in there original location and all hoses are connected to them.

But, with the new fill hose having a more shallow rise from the floor to gas cap along with the thru  hull vent being below the gas cap, this may be causing it to spit more than usual. I'm thinking that if I increase the height of the vent line loop, this may curb the spit, even without dead rise.

 

 

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5 hours ago, SST said:

No modifications have been made to the attach points. All are in there original location and all hoses are connected to them.

But, with the new fill hose having a more shallow rise from the floor to gas cap along with the thru  hull vent being below the gas cap, this may be causing it to spit more than usual. I'm thinking that if I increase the height of the vent line loop, this may curb the spit, even without dead rise.

 

 

I am also using the original fittings and locations.

Not sure how I did the vent hose, other then running it higher then the filling spout.

Next time I get over to the boat, I will check it out.  Denny.

 

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18 minutes ago, Denny said:

I am also using the original fittings and locations.

Not sure how I did the vent hose, other then running it higher then the filling spout.

Next time I get over to the boat, I will check it out.  Denny.

This should give you some idea as to what yours should look like.

image.jpeg.b53bb146e63a41e3fbf438568f77f783.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, SST said:

As you can see from this picture, it doesn't agree with your diagram. My vent is below the gas cap. 

IMG-2981.jpg

 

Yes, so is mine, I just wanted to show you that the vent hose top hump has to be higher then the fill hose for it to work properly.  Denny. 

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On 12/23/2020 at 6:16 PM, Denny said:

Yes, so is mine, I just wanted to show you that the vent hose top hump has to be higher then the fill hose for it to work properly.  Denny. 

That's what I'll check when I get the boat back out of storage in late April. I'm thinking the vent hose may have sunk to a lower level. We'll shall see.

In the mean time....I currently have 5 inches of fresh snowfall. As the low pressure system moves east, the winds will change direction and "activate" the lake effect snow machine in just a few hours for an additional 10 inches. Gotta clear the driveway before the second round. 

Merry Xmas.

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5 hours ago, SST said:

That's what I'll check when I get the boat back out of storage in late April. I'm thinking the vent hose may have sunk to a lower level. We'll shall see.

In the mean time....I currently have 5 inches of fresh snowfall. As the low pressure system moves east, the winds will change direction and "activate" the lake effect snow machine in just a few hours for an additional 10 inches. Gotta clear the driveway before the second round. 

Merry Xmas.

Merry Christmas to you also, and may your winter be short.  Denny.

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On 9/20/2014 at 11:10 AM, Hatem said:

I believe they started back in 2008 when they began adding Kevlar to reinforce the keels and even the hulls (which they've won a few awards for) and IIRC from the research I did before buying mine is that's also when they started what they call "Quad Radial lamination System and Fiberglass Innerliner Construction".

I have an 03 Sunesta and have an original brochure and they state they used the Quad Radial Lamination way back then..  just an FYI.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have been through my Chaparral 240 Signature (1999) from keel to windscreen, from transom to anchor roller. Replaced fuel tank (see separate post), new engine and DPS unit, and the wood was surprisingly in excellent condition throughout. I have to say the XL ply is indeed very durable and no need to replace anything other than what I had to cut out to allow for the fuel tank replacement. The transom looked like brand new. Very unusual when renovating "old" boats! So both thumbs up from me, when it comes to Chaparral build quality. One of the, if not The, best American non-custom brands. 

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On 12/25/2020 at 10:02 PM, Youngz said:

I have an 03 Sunesta and have an original brochure and they state they used the Quad Radial Lamination way back then..  just an FYI.  

Thanks for the correction.  Good to know.  I think it appeared to me that was when they started with it because of the way they advertised it on the brochure.  But it makes sense that method was being used by them before then.

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