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Chewey

Just cause we have a bunch of airplane lovers

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jmiska,

I hear you too. And other than the cockpit door (although I could always be persuaded otherwise), I agree with everything in your post. Everything! If somebody's gonna do it and they are willing to die for it...there's not much stopping them.

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And I stand by my statement that the next 9/11 will happen from "the inside" and that "nobody has a record until they do":

According to Michael Mannheimer, a writer for German PI-News, Germany now has its own 9/11, thanks to the convert to Islam, Andreas Lubitz.

Translation from German:

All evidence indicates that the copilot of Airbus machine in his six-months break during his training as a pilot in Germanwings, converted to Islam and subsequently either by the order of “radical”, ie. devout Muslims , or received the order from the book of terror, the Quran, on his own accord decided to carry out this mass murder. As a radical mosque in Bremen is in the center of the investigation, in which the convert was staying often, it can be assumed that he – as Mohammed Atta, in the attack against New York – received his instructions directly from the immediate vicinity of the mosque.

Converts are the most important weapon of Islam. Because their resume do not suggests that they often are particularly violent Muslims. Thus Germany now has its own 9/11, but in a reduced form. And so it is clear that Islam is a terrorist organization that are in accordance with §129a of the Criminal Code to prohibit it and to investigate its followers. But nothing will happen. One can bet that the apologists (media, politics, “Islamic Scholars”) will agree to assign this an act of a “mentally unstable” man, and you can bet that now, once again the mantra of how supposedly peaceful Islam is will continue. And worse still, the attacks by the left against those who have always warned against Islam, will be angrier and merciless.

For now the German Islam supporters like never before have their backs against the wall.

Michael Mannheimer, 26.3.2015

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Chewey you should! We lose half of our pilots in the next 10years to retirements. That's 6k pilots. I love when I get a skipper that can go punch for punch when the boat talk starts.

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And I stand by my statement that the next 9/11 will happen from "the inside" and that "nobody has a record until they do":

According to Michael Mannheimer, a writer for German PI-News, Germany now has its own 9/11, thanks to the convert to Islam, Andreas Lubitz.

Translation from German:

All evidence indicates that the copilot of Airbus machine in his six-months break during his training as a pilot in Germanwings, converted to Islam and subsequently either by the order of “radical”, ie. devout Muslims , or received the order from the book of terror, the Quran, on his own accord decided to carry out this mass murder.

...

If confirmed, this is bad, really bad ... it was/is bound to happen unfortunately.

I used to fly a lot, personal, business, on a weekly bases for years. Then came 9/11 and new security rules, and more security, and airlines becoming cheap charter flying bus operators. I hate flying as a result ... but all that was just inconvenience.

Now, we really need to think about our safety when flying ... not fun.

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I may have to pick you brain in the not too distant future. I gotta figure out what I want to do when I grow up (3-7 years from now). I don't think my ideal job exists, so I'm gonna have to pick the best of the rest for me and the family.

As for the current situation, I've been surprised at how free the French Gov't has been with their information, albeit in snippets. It's the exact thing that leads to a public conclusion without all the information. My opinion is take at least a week, gather what you know (which is usually around 80% of the relevant facts, if not more) and release what you can legally and let folks know there's more that will come out later. Of course silence breeds speculation as well.

That's we all gotta buy our own airplanes HG! Though you're gonna have to get up to at least mph to takeoff. You could probably be safe cruising around 80mph, but you're definitely gonna have to push that throttle up a touch more than in the boat!

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That's we all gotta buy our own airplanes HG! Though you're gonna have to get up to at least mph to takeoff. You could probably be safe cruising around 80mph, but you're definitely gonna have to push that throttle up a touch more than in the boat!

Hahaa, yeah baby! But Mike, here's the diff - I have no problem as you well know taking the WS6 out and ripping a whole in the tar. I'll open it up with the best of them, on the road, although admittedly things have changed a bit since I'VE grown up and reached near 50 LOLOLOL that I've found myself reluctant to get into 6th gear that often and to take corners hard and zip it at 90 on country farm roads. I have backed up on those habits a little but boating, being a complete novelty in terms of ownership and actual driving with the complications of depths and the abundance of rocks and massive tide swings has made me this apprehensive about slamming it on the boat. Basically inexperience, really. Not knowing how the boat will react at these high speeds and having the most important people in my life on the boat with me and their lives in my hands makes that decision very easy. So in time, with more confidence etc I'll probably get up there for sure. But with hotrods and most likely in airplanes, I know the former there's no issue and probably none with the latter either! :D

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I'll say it here and I know many will disagree with me and that is truly okay. As soon as our wonderful government announced they were mandating reinforced cockpit doors shortly after 9/11, I said it was a bad idea. It was too reactionary in my opinion. The next 9/11 style attack will come from within. Nobody has a record until they do. I foresee terrorists brainwashing and enlisting young people with no records (already happening) to learn to fly, get airline jobs, bid lines to work together and guess what? They're protected behind a reinforced cockpit door from passengers who (since 9/11) will have no problem getting involved. I'm comfortable with relying on me and my fellow passengers to take down any terrorist who tries to do something like this. They know we won't sit idly by like we did pre-9/11. But I don't want them to gain entrance to the cockpit and lock themselves inside.

I understand pilots who would say they feel safer behind a secured door. I would too! But you and I aren't the terrorists.

My :Twocents:

I'm glad you and CJ don't have an issue about discussing this. Interestingly enough it has nothing to do with whose brand has an up-manship over the other despite the aircraft that crashed being an Airbus. Still, the only way this murdering, scum-sucking derelict was able to crash that sophisticated aircraft on purpose was to put it into that gradual decent. The computer recognized it as a conventional decent for landing so it wasn't going to initiate any other preventative measure. Interestingly enough, despite how sophisticated the software is in that it does all it can to prevent the pilot from crashing the aircraft, it can only do so much. That was his only means of bringing it down. If we think about that concept alone, it's pretty impressive despite what happened.

Perhaps the newer software that will emerge from this tragic assassination of 150 people will be one that will recognize unfamiliar terrain? If it could incorporate some form of GPS or FLIR that looks at the terrain and matches it up with the flight plan and final destination and if it recognizes a deviation from that plan and incorrect terrain, it doesn't allow it until it gets some form of approval like from 3 separate parties - the pilot, co-pilot and command control would all have to punch in a code to initiate a change of flight path only because there's bound to be a need to alter the flight plan and it would be necessary but the other way would prevent something like this or even a hijacking. The only way that can be overridden would be in a case of emergency or malfunction be it mechanical, then that 3-party approval would be automatically turned off. Otherwise, there is no change of flight plan and no suicide pilots or hijackers.

I think flight computers are only going to get better and better and not only that but take more control of the flying and emergency procedures. The day will come soon, I think, when the entire flight will be conducted by the computer beyond auto-pilot or whatever it's at today, from take-off to landing and maybe it ought to be this way? The only issue I think would be a problem with that scenario is traffic control and need to deviate from the flight plan to avoid clutter traffic at big airports. Other than that, do you guys think that's doable? Or is it impossible?

You know unmanned drones are the next thing in the military and probably not in our lifetime but our kids will see the next generation of unmanned fighter aircraft. It is on it's way and that will suck for pilots no doubt, but it's coming you can bet on it. The F-35 has been rumored to be the last manned aircraft being built for the US military and what a shame the failure that this is turning out to be but that's a totally separate subject. Question is, how safe and successful would unmanned flight technology be in the civilian aircraft industry?

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Oh, I know all that HG, but I'm not about to let little things like facts and logic get in the way to giving ya a hard time!

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Good one, Mike. BTW, here's that pic I was telling you about. I found it digging through the billions of pics I have but now whenever I look at it, it reminds me of you since you're the only C-130 pilot I know and I found it pretty wild to see a military cargo transport zipping along at Logan Airport in Boston. The other thing that's cool abut this pic is the view from the top of the deck of the USS WASP when she was in Boston Harbor during the week of the 4th of July in 2012. There was a lot of activity happening at once. The vantage point was just great.

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All the boating action in the harbor, that must've been a fun day and cruise.

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Cj, come on man! You got about a jillion switches in that cockpit of yours. You mean to tell me that they didn't put in a mute button for an annoying FO? :yb624::yb624:

Seriously, I get your point. It's not like you can just move to a different desk if the guy next to you annoys the heck out of you.

On another forum I post on, are some "old time airline pilots." Way back in the day captains flew the plane always and the copilot did nothing but operate the landing gear and flaps and kept his mouth shut. Rarely if ever did they fly the plane.

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On another forum I post on, are some "old time airline pilots." Way back in the day captains flew the plane always and the copilot did nothing but operate the landing gear and flaps and kept his mouth shut. Rarely if ever did they fly the plane.

Yeah I can't stand when people ask me when I'm going to become a "pilot." The public just doesn't understand that the only reason the other guy is a captain and im not is that he got hired first, and his seniority allows him to hold a captain position. It is not merit based or anything like that. Purely seniority. And most of us copilots have Captained jets in the past to get us qualified to fly for the majors.

The misunderstanding is hilarious. And the media kills us! I already heard comments flying yesterday if I was sane enough to fly.

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That's another drawback to being an airline...dealing with the general public! Those are some great pics, thanks for sharing them. Boating beside the an airport sounds about perfect!

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Lovely CNN seems to be doing a fine job of explaining anything and everything about our secure cockpit door on the Airbus, so at least they save me from posting security procedures on a public forum! Good to know they are on the case as usual.

Cj,

Yeah, man! I was poking around CNN's website earlier and happened on a video they had up showing in excruciating detail, from INSIDE an A320 simulator, EXACTLY how to lock someone out of the cockpit of your plane. What the hel!?? It might as well have been an Airbus training video. What are they expecting to accomplish with all this detailed information???

What ever happened to "loose lips sink ships"?

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I'll say it here and I know many will disagree with me and that is truly okay. As soon as our wonderful government announced they were mandating reinforced cockpit doors shortly after 9/11, I said it was a bad idea. It was too reactionary in my opinion. The next 9/11 style attack will come from within. Nobody has a record until they do. I foresee terrorists brainwashing and enlisting young people with no records (already happening) to learn to fly, get airline jobs, bid lines to work together and guess what? They're protected behind a reinforced cockpit door from passengers who (since 9/11) will have no problem getting involved. I'm comfortable with relying on me and my fellow passengers to take down any terrorist who tries to do something like this. They know we won't sit idly by like we did pre-9/11. But I don't want them to gain entrance to the cockpit and lock themselves inside.

I understand pilots who would say they feel safer behind a secured door. I would too! But you and I aren't the terrorists.

My :Twocents:

So TP, forgive me for putting you on the spot, here, but if we feel safer when the door is locked yet we don't want the terrorists to lock themselves into the cockpit, what is the alternative? I'm sure the FAA has figured out this step should it happen and either given the air marshal(s) or a certain stewardess on duty the means to access the interior of the cockpit. The problem is in the international flying regulation or specifically in Europe such as in this case, obviously they didn't have any procedure in place for this which tells me (and CNN might've mentioned this as well) that there are no air marshals on Euro flights which is mind blowing if you think about it. Unless it's not true.

Cj, that's what I figured with the crews. It would be a lot better if two guys got to work together for a while. I bet it would prevent this kind of thing. Texas, I do hear you. My own thoughts, though, may be toward locking the door...

I think, in the end, the locking cockpit door is good. Really, I actually feel safer on a plane post 9-11 than I ever did, ONLY because I know the crew is isolated and able to do their jobs without interference, and if some ba$tard with a death wish decides to try something on the plane, we'll all be on him faster than stink on a pig, and he'll probably be dead. It's happened before where the "disrupter" ended up dying because of the passengers "restraining" him so effectively. For the record, TSA has NOTHING to do with my feeling safer on the plane. (side story... my company used to own a huge training center in Leesburg, VA that was often rented out by TSA for their own training. After observing them, we determined that it stood for "Thousands Standing Around."

In the end, the sad fact is that we can't protect against everything. Someone heIl bent on killing lots of people will always find a way to do it. Sometimes they use guns, sometimes it's bombs, other times it's poison, and sometimes it's airplanes. If someone really wants to spread destruction, it's going to happen. Sadly, for whatever reason, this guy decided to become a mass-murder, and he chose the tool that was most accessible to him. Thankfully, it's extremely rare, and we're all still safer on a big old 7X7 than just about anywhere else in the world. That says an awful lot for all the people that make that happen. If only hospitals had that kind of safety record (but that's another thread).

No question about it. I feel MUCH safer post 911 than before. I remember in the 80's the cockpit doors would be open for periods of time and you can see the pilot and copilot working lol. Nothing close to that now not to mention pre-flight security procedures.

And I stand by my statement that the next 9/11 will happen from "the inside" and that "nobody has a record until they do":

According to Michael Mannheimer, a writer for German PI-News, Germany now has its own 9/11, thanks to the convert to Islam, Andreas Lubitz.

Translation from German:

All evidence indicates that the copilot of Airbus machine in his six-months break during his training as a pilot in Germanwings, converted to Islam and subsequently either by the order of “radical”, ie. devout Muslims , or received the order from the book of terror, the Quran, on his own accord decided to carry out this mass murder. As a radical mosque in Bremen is in the center of the investigation, in which the convert was staying often, it can be assumed that he – as Mohammed Atta, in the attack against New York – received his instructions directly from the immediate vicinity of the mosque.

Converts are the most important weapon of Islam. Because their resume do not suggests that they often are particularly violent Muslims. Thus Germany now has its own 9/11, but in a reduced form. And so it is clear that Islam is a terrorist organization that are in accordance with §129a of the Criminal Code to prohibit it and to investigate its followers. But nothing will happen. One can bet that the apologists (media, politics, “Islamic Scholars”) will agree to assign this an act of a “mentally unstable” man, and you can bet that now, once again the mantra of how supposedly peaceful Islam is will continue. And worse still, the attacks by the left against those who have always warned against Islam, will be angrier and merciless.

For now the German Islam supporters like never before have their backs against the wall.

Michael Mannheimer, 26.3.2015

Don't they usually take responsibility and we would've heard something by now like a note or a group owning up to it? Hasn't happened and actually there's a lot of stuff coming out that Lubitz had some serious depression and psychological issues even had suicidal tendencies/feelings prior to getting his pilot's license and had been diagnosed quite a bit by doctors who even said he shouldn't be flying but it never reached the authorities for some reason. So I doubt TBH, TP, that there's any validity to this speculation by this Mannheimer dude. Who is he, anyway?

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Okay, I don't know how to multi-quote, so I just won't quote at all! :)

Hatem, one thing you need to understand is that I am not an airline pilot nor do I fly for a living. I work in corporate aviation and I'm a pilot, so that's my perspective. Still, I fly on the airlines quite a bit and I have an opinion on everything :D

I don't know what the answer is. I just know that I feel safer now that we the passengers will do something and the terrorists know it. They have to adapt. I fear the secure cockpit will (and was just proven) to have dire affects.

I don't know anything about the islamist nature of this idiot, nor do I take ANYTHING at face value found on the internet. So I simply posted it as it is...some German claiming something we have no idea if true. Oh, and I'm sure SOMEBODY has claimed responsibility. They always do. But our media is worthless.

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"They" are probably trying to keep a lid on everthing until the deal with Iran is complete. Imagine if this guy converts to s Shiite muslim and has a connection wtih Iran. Try to make a deal then.

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It sounds like there are more than enough psychological issues surfacing with this guy to start to explain his issues beyond radical Islam. I haven't seen any connection mentioned, but I've seen lots of accounts of fits of rage, unpredictable temper, uncontrolled depression and more. From one report I saw, a former girlfriend said that he had told her once that he was going to "do something that will change the system, and that people will remember him for." It sounds like he did it. To me, he sounds just like any of these psychopaths that go and shoot up a school or theater. They expect to die in the act, and they want the publicity of taking out a hundred or so innocent lives in their "blaze of glory."

He belongs in the same book of losers as that guy that shot up all the little kids in Connecticut.

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^^Yep, that's pretty much it, Joe. I doubt there's much more beyond that. Shame, to think such a horrible infliction would take the lives of so many other innocent people instead of just the individual himself.

Okay, I don't know how to multi-quote, so I just won't quote at all! :)

Hatem, one thing you need to understand is that I am not an airline pilot nor do I fly for a living. I work in corporate aviation and I'm a pilot, so that's my perspective. Still, I fly on the airlines quite a bit and I have an opinion on everything :D

I don't know what the answer is. I just know that I feel safer now that we the passengers will do something and the terrorists know it. They have to adapt. I fear the secure cockpit will (and was just proven) to have dire affects.

I don't know anything about the islamist nature of this idiot, nor do I take ANYTHING at face value found on the internet. So I simply posted it as it is...some German claiming something we have no idea if true. Oh, and I'm sure SOMEBODY has claimed responsibility. They always do. But our media is worthless.

Wait a minute, didn't I see a pic of you flying that Saudi prince's glutinous airplane there lol? Beautiful aircraft but the golden throne LOL! Was that before you moved up to corporate?

Oh, and multi-quoting is really simple, just click onto the "MultiQuote" option on the bottom right of each individual's post that you want to quote and when you've accumulated all the posts you want to reply to and you're ready to write your reply, there's an option that's already opened up as you clicked on to the people's posts that says "Reply to 2 (or 3) quoted posts" in the bottom, right corner. Click onto that and your reply box opens up with all the separate quotes in one reply and you can insert your text under each quote and when you're done, click "Post" and that's it.

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Ahhh....got it. The multi-quote. Thanks!

Naw, I've always been in corporate. That Saudi Prince's 747 is considered corporate believe it or not. Just one of the many perks of the awesome industry I work in. Not really a perk, I guess, rather the right place at the right time. Flew from Dallas to Frankfurt to Riyadh and got about 20 minutes of "stick time" over Saudi Arabia. Lucky.

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Those are some great pics, thanks for sharing them. Boating beside the an airport sounds about perfect!

Thanks, Mike. I can't wait to get down there this summer. I think the tall ships (or just the Eagle which is the largest of the tall ships) is coming to Boston this summer. Not 100% sure but there's always something going on so looking forward to it. We're trying to organize a Boston Chaparral hitch and so far we have Iggy and his Sig 290, jmadds with his 327 and myself. Should be a blast.

Here's something else I found that I thought was cool - at that same show in western MA - these pair of F-15C & E Eagles did a couple of low, high-speed passes and then went vertical and turned back. I only had my small, digital camera so following these things going at 600mph was not easy lol, hence the plane not in the center of the pic in each one but they still came out ok and fun to look at. You can tell those things were zipping by and I love how the sound is delayed just a little bit and man, are they LOUD!

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Interesting story.....

In what proved to be a chilling prophecy, a Dutch pilot wrote two months before the Germanwings disaster that he was afraid of going to the lavatory and then being locked out of the cockpit.

Emirates airlines pilot Jan Cocheret said high-tech security measures meant to keep would-be hijackers from entering the flight deck also could allow rogue pilots to take over an aircraft, the Mirror reported.

“I hope I never find myself in the situation where I go to the toilet and return to find a cockpit door that won’t open,” he wrote for Aviation News. “I seriously sometimes wondered who is sitting next to me in the cockpit. Whether you know them or have just met in the cockpit, who can guarantee that you can trust him or her?

“Maybe there’s just something terrible that has happened in someone’s life.”

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Matt,

I think that's the one. I saw a TV special once on a royal Saudi 747 that had gold plating and marble fixtures in the bathroom... basically, it was like a luxury mansion inside. The marble was thin sheets over a honeycomb core, though, for light weight, but it had the right look and feel of solid marble (at 10x the cost, of course). It was determined to be the most expensive private plane ever built.

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