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jayintx

Boat alarming at idle and stalling

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I am new to boating and just purchased a 2002 Chaparral 200 SSE, Volvo penta 5.0 carbed.

It does not like to start up with out leaving the choke on and abiut 1/4 throttle. It warms up eventually. It will idle in neutral but once it is put in gear it stalls. Start it back up and but it in gear befor it stalls. The boat will run good no alarms and seems to get up to full speed (not sure what that is yet) it runs about a little shy of 5000 rpm.

When we cruise around for a while we will slow down to stop and when the boat is in gear and going slow an alarm strats to beep faintly and intermittent, then a steady beep and it stalls. I can start it back up but need to put in in gear with some throttle or it will stall again.

This makes it fun to get it back to the dock and on the trailer.

What can it be

Jayintx

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O K Jay.

I hate to see another 2002 5.0 carbed owner driving with alarms & a unreliable engine.

You DEFINATELY need a engine mechanic to go over the engine. Hopefully it is a lot of worn out & misadjusted parts. Engine is right age . If it is the origina;l one.

Choke blade in carb is not closing all the way when starting.

Thermostat is sticking open runs too cold after it should have warmed up. Can cause stalling because it is filling the sparkplugs with black carbon.

Those 2 will lower the idle speed causing TOO slow of a idle.

Hesitation when accelerated from idling in gear. Classic screw up by someone WRONGLY adjusting the carb ACCELERATOR ROD. Some had more than 1 hole to adjust the elimination of the hesitation when moving the lever from idle while in gear F or R.

Water pump has had been run into a sandy bottom by someone ?

Onto ignition. & electrical.

Have the battery load tested. Is the alternator putting out the correct voltage & current at idle & about 2500 rpm ?

Distributor.......

Is the timing correct?

Are there parts in side dirty & or rusty looking? Patched up ? Screws that look butchered up ,loose missing?

Some electronic sensors inside the distributors are KNOWN to fail causing a slow death & sudden complete failure.

Check fuel.pump pressure at idle. hot & cold .

Just a guess from where I am of course. But you need a dam good marine mechanic to go completely thru the little bits & pieces of the engine.

Sounds like a abused engine that was run into the ground by someone who never took care of it. Lack of money or just cheap.

Have a COLD & a HOT compression test done.

Have the mechanic check the COLOR of EACH sparkplug. They can really tell the condition of each cylinder.........Will show if there are possibly bad ignition sparkplug cables or not even fully inserted.

Good Carburator mechanic needed. No laptop tech is going to run a bottle of Seafoam thru the carb & fuel tank

Loose sparkplug wires. Amateur auto mechanic. That can drive a needless parts and labor bill up. The wire in the center of the distributor is a great place to start.

Wrong plugs.

Tons of simple thing to checkout in a poor running great engine. Lots more items..........................

. Have ALL the male split pins checked inside the big plug & socket at the engine. The split pins DO DO lose tension with age. Lots of weird difficult problems those pins can cause.

Have ALL dash gauges & their sensors in the engine checked for accuracy & replace any that are defective.

Hope a lot of simple adjustments & parts do the job.............Water pump is a must on a older used boat.

I am tired of 1 finger typing.

Good luck. :)

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cyclops2

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am very mechanical and can tackle most of these items.

The boat has run into a sandy bottom, mostly due to not familiar with the low spots of the lake. When you refer to the water pump are you talking the circulation pump on the motor or the raw water pump on the crank? What should be done due to the sandy bottom incident?

I was thinking the same thing with the thermostat, especially with the water in the lake being cold.

I am 100% sure the carb has been messed with. You can just tell by looking at it. I was thinking of rebuilding it or buying a replacement. Recommendations?

I was just going to replace the temp and oil pressure sensors to just rule them out since it is easy to do.

Thanks in advance

Jay

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It sounds like your over heating. As mentioned above about rounning a ground OR the impeller is worn out. Change out the impeller and check the housing if sand has scored it,

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I am never too old to back into what I thought was just a mucky / weedy bottom. SUPRISE. It had sand also. Wiped out the pump housing also. Time for a complete Mercruiser pump. It did not take long on a 2002 original pump.

Carb in a used boat ? Big crap game. Is it the right carb? DIY clowns buy different sized jets ? Did they drill the jets out? Pump rod seal not pushing outward to make sure it pumps the same amount every stroke ? Did they buy a rebuild kit & screw up the float settings ? Did they put the carburetor into a wash out tank FILLED with dirt filled cleaner? did they blow the softened varnish and dirt into the air & fuel openings ?

Your call. I NEVER NEVER buy a used or rebuilt carburetor. Dirty solvents in their tank, old gaskets if he remembered & they did not adjust the float right or the accelerator pump rod correctly. He was cleaning floors at Walmart as his first job before becoming a carb rebuilder.

New Is NEW. If the boat has different NEW problems? Factory will make good.

Replace the carb accelerator piston gasket or buy a new piston if not part of the kit. If the piston seal is gone you will never adjust the rod correctly.

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I am talking about the one buried in the stern drive. If a Mercruiser. Be a good time to also check the alignment of the drive to the engine. The drive will be off for the pump. Lots of labor & some parts.

REAL caution is NEEDED when loosening bolts. I had a great drive mechanic do the pump & drive alignment work. Said a couple of bolts were very tight. I am just too impatient at 78 to play with bolts & no adjustable torque impact ratchet.

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Jay

I have a very GREAT respect, almost fearful, about being on a boat. It is that if it breaks down in a desolate area & a fire starts.

Not like a car. Can not get out & walk a safe distance away & probably cell phone for help. I can not walk on water or sit on it. So I do my best to buy anything that shows signs of wear or operating not perfect. BUT I never just change parts because a manufacturer says to change it. on a certain # of months or hours. He has no idea if I beat the crap out of the part or treat it to last a long time. Companies are in business to take as much money as fast as possible. They need new 200' yachts every year.

I have done very well with a excellent auto & marine mechanic. He only changes when they show signs of problem starting. The boat has had 1 electrical starting problem. 1 very weak pin in a connector at the back of the engine.

Oils & filters are seasonal change items . Acids in oils due to combustion ARE CORROSIVE to metal parts. Since a boat engine operates at much higher power levels. There is more combustion acids.

Next speaker.

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Does the Volvo Penta have the impeller in the lower unit. The drawing does not show one?

It's mounted to the front of the crankshaft pulley, just below the block mounted engine coolant circulating pump. The impeller sits just behind the sheet metal cover plate. W

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I think you may have two issues.

Running aground will destroy the raw water pump, as it pulls in debris.

I think your carb needs some tweaking or rebuild. I had National Carb rebuild mine, but haven't used it yet so can't testify yet on how well it works, but they came well recommended.

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I am talking about the one buried in the stern drive. If a Mercruiser. Be a good time to also check the alignment of the drive to the engine. The drive will be off for the pump. Lots of labor & some parts.

REAL caution is NEEDED when loosening bolts. I had a great drive mechanic do the pump & drive alignment work. Said a couple of bolts were very tight. I am just too impatient at 78 to play with bolts & no adjustable torque impact ratchet.

No need to pull the drive on a Merc to change the water pump impeller. Actually easier if you don't.

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to me it just seems like tune up items. New plus and wires, cap and rotor, and replace the impeller. I think that would do it. If not to me it seems as if the carb should be rebuilt maybe as well. which is cheap to do or easy if you do it yourself.

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Update

Replaced the carb with new and it starts and runs great.

Replaced the impeller, the old one did not show any damage and looked fairly new.

Changed the lower unit oil and its full. 

Now the boat still alarms. It starts up, idles great no alarm. once warmed up I take it out and while running no alarm. Stop then I go again no alarm but when I slow down or stop the second time it starts to alarm and goes away when I get going again. It seems like the more I go thru the above cycle the longer it takes for it to go away. While idling and alarming I pulled off the wire on top of each exhaust manifold one at a time...still alarms. The engine feels warm to the touch but not real hot at all. 

Also when it start to alarm the alarm stutters like it cant make up its mind to beep or not beep, then it finally just beeps. 

The oil pressure gauge is in the middle slightly left at idle, i do not know the exact number off hand. The temp gauge does not go up much at all. 

Any ideas what I should look for next??

I am thinking either the water temp or oil sensor for the alarm is bad or maybe a loose or frayed wire. Any help would be appreciated.

Jay

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Temperature gauge should be around 145 to 160 . Depends on what thermostat is in place.  That alarm AFTER warming up ??  Sure sounds like a sticky thermostat. They can randomly stick on being too cool or too hot. The stuttering is a change taking place. Then the problem causing a full solid  error. The gauge may be reading low     AND   the motor is over heating at the same time.  Sure sounds like a cooling problem...................Next time the alarm sounds CHECK ALL BIG water hoses for COLLAPSING.... As they get hot they soften & should have a S S coil spring in the suction side hoses.  Head gasket with a small exhaust leak into the coolant line that overpowers the coolant flow at idle.

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I will check, but the last time I had it out I had the back up and while it is alarming I can put my hand on the engine and exhaust and it not hot. Not hot enough for me to jerk my hand back at all. I have it out of the water now in my driveway. When I ran it on the garden hose it idled for a long time and never alarmed. 

Can I test the hoses like you said while on the hose? If the sensors are not too expensive I can just change them while I have it here and hope that was it. I know changing this and that can get $$$$ but if that is the issue it is convenient for me to change it tomorrow and test it on Sat. Should I change the thermostat while in there too?

I also have a laser temp probe that i can check the temp in many areas. 

Jay

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How do you know the HOT  idle speed is correct ?  DO NOT use the dash instruments !!  They are old & not verified.  worn out & or sticky linkage.  Have you checked the laser gun against ice filled water & a pot of boiling water with a dull inside finish ?   Instruments are only good if they can be checked & verified.  Is the fuel filter changed ?  Is The fuel pump wearing out ? 

Have / do you know how to adjust the idle mixture & speed. Also the pump piston stroke starting point & duration ?   If it has all those adjustments ?

No backfiring or bucking   any speeds ?  How many minutes or seconds does it take to stall when doing the hot idle ?  

I am leaning to a                 in gear idle mixture is too lean & speed is too low.  gasoline quality can cause the stalling out at idle. Crummy enough & the engine can heat up the fuel enough to cause lean running. 

AS there are a lot of things to consider & check out. I am loosing interest from my key board.  Get a good mechanic to check the carb  settings & the pump stroke linkage before any thing else. 

Did the new carb run perfect the first few times when idled hot ?  If yes ? look for water in the carb bowl building up enough to be sucked up at idle.

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DO you have a fresh water flush attachemnt if so check the tee where it connects to the drive water inlet hose,  Some are spring loaded and get stuck in the closed positon restricitng water flow in the drive inlet hose.

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2 hours ago, cyclops2 said:

How do you know the HOT  idle speed is correct ?  DO NOT use the dash instruments !!  They are old & not verified.  worn out & or sticky linkage.  Have you checked the laser gun against ice filled water & a pot of boiling water with a dull inside finish ?   Instruments are only good if they can be checked & verified.  Is the fuel filter changed ?  Is The fuel pump wearing out ? 

Have / do you know how to adjust the idle mixture & speed. Also the pump piston stroke starting point & duration ?   If it has all those adjustments ?

No backfiring or bucking   any speeds ?  How many minutes or seconds does it take to stall when doing the hot idle ?  

I am leaning to a                 in gear idle mixture is too lean & speed is too low.  gasoline quality can cause the stalling out at idle. Crummy enough & the engine can heat up the fuel enough to cause lean running. 

AS there are a lot of things to consider & check out. I am loosing interest from my key board.  Get a good mechanic to check the carb  settings & the pump stroke linkage before any thing else. 

Did the new carb run perfect the first few times when idled hot ?  If yes ? look for water in the carb bowl building up enough to be sucked up at idle.

The stalling issue was fixed with the new carb. It starts and idles smooth. Idles cold and hot. And yes fuel filter changed. 

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 You stated it ran fine idling on a garden hose ?  That says to me the water pump IS NOT PUMPING fast enough to cool at idle.  Cold garden hose is fine but motor running pump is too weak.  Change the complete pump..............Parts could look fine     BUT   still be   WRONG   causing not enough water to flow with engine pump. 

5 % senior discount is available. Tell them 1 eye sent you.  :)

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I had a similar situation on the boat slowing up when cruising and alarm went off. I replaced the engine overheat sensors and that solved my problem.

 

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Changed Thermostat, and flushed out the engine / manifolds / hoses.

Found the oil pressure switch wire connector corroded. Attempted to change the switch and it snapped off at the block. It looked like it may have been cracked and leaking a little bit. 2 hrs and some easy outs later I got the rest out of the block. Replaced it with a new sensor. 

It idled in the driveway on the muffs smooth and no alarm. I will put it in the water later today and give an update. 

Jay 

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