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On 31 March 2017 at 5:19 PM, Guzzi said:

Thing is the providers and insurers BOTH have costs associated with processing a claim. If a provider does not have to file they do not have to cover the cost of labor to file and close the claim. It costs the doctors less to just deposit a check. "IF" they are decent people they will pass the reduced cost of their service to you.

...

There are the processing costs, and they both made it complicated and costly, and you and I pay for it. BUT ... that is only a small fraction of the fake costs billed.

Again, my comments are in context is private healthcare insurance that most of the population is eligible for, like group insurance thru employer or thru Marketplace, or direct private insurance, not Medicare or Medicaid that are different models managed differently.

The example below is my most recent procedure (PET/CT scan) and the incurred cost numbers are from insurer's statement, and procedure cost is from provider's website. This is typical situation and representative of what I have seen over the years while reviewing the insurer statements and provider bills:

Provider billed the insurer: $2900 (sky is the limit charge, if one is out of network, or uninsured, and/or not informed)

Insurer's allowed charge: $1400 (allowed by insurer under insurer/provider contract)

Provider's self-pay charge: $1200 (actual fee if one bothers to ask)

I am still waiting for the provider's bill which in all likelihood will ask for $1400. After calling them it will go down to the published $1200 as I already talked to them before the procedure. The difference of $200 above might be related to processing and paperwork exchange between provider and insurer. BUT ... this is the reality ... fake $2900 billed, actual fee is $1200 ... the provider billed 242% of the actual fee. Processing cost? No, it's the game they play and we sometimes fall for it.

Most providers keep the actual fees secret and do not publish them. Only recently I was able to find some self-pay price lists on provider's website. The actual (self-pay) fees are, and they were available before, you just need to ask up front. You might be able to pay less than even the insurance negotiated with the provider. You just need to ask, or even better to talk to them before the procedure.

Just relaying my experience ...

 

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1 hour ago, Richard W said:

There are the processing costs, and they both made it complicated and costly, and you and I pay for it. BUT ... that is only a small fraction of the fake costs billed.

Again, the context is private healthcare insurance that most of the population is eligible for, like group insurance thru employer or thru Marketplace, or direct private insurance, not Medicare or Medicaid that are different models managed differently.

The example below is my most recent procedure (PET/CT scan) and the incurred cost numbers are from insurers statement, and procedure cost is from providers website. This is typical situation and representative of what I have seen over the years while reviewing the insurer statements and provider bills:

Provider billed the insurer: $2900 (sky is the limit charge, if one is out of network, or uninsured, and/or not informed)

Insurer's allowed charge: $1400 (allowed by insurer under insurer/provider contract)

Provider's self-pay charge: $1200 (actual fee if one bothers to ask)

I am still waiting for the provider's bill which in all likelihood will ask for $1400. After calling them it will go down to the published $1200 as I already talked to them before the procedure. The difference of $200 above might be related to processing and paperwork exchange between provider and insurer. BUT ... this is the reality ... fake $2900 billed, actual fee is $1200 ... the provider billed 242% of the actual fee. Processing cost? No, it's the game they play and we sometimes fall for it.

Most providers keep the actual fees secret and do not publish them. Only recently I was able to find some self-pay price lists on provider's website. The actual (self-pay) fees are, and they were available before, you just need to ask up front. You might be able to pay less than even the insurance negotiated with the provider. You just need to ask, or even better to talk to them before the procedure.

Just relaying my experience ...

 

Agreed. My point was that all of this interference and additional expenses is paid by us, you and I and every single individual in this country. Not by government or ins company. I agree the numbers game is there to help cover costs of the ones who don't pay. My point is our current system (ACA) only increased UNNECESSARY costs to an already out of control system.

Again I can site similar examples from our own personal expenses. A PET Scan billed at 7980 by the provider was reduced to 2200 when I addressed the charges with the provider. The providers we had available did not have published self pay pricing so in that you held an advantage. However a 5 minute discussion provided the extremely large cost reductions that were there for the asking, could I have negotiated a lower price? If I had the benefit of published self pay prices it would have been easier but honestly I experienced NO issues getting her the best of healthcare complete with the best of outcomes. My only "Problems" were with the government systems strapped around our neck like an anchor (required boat reference) by politicians that are dumber than a box of rocks and only interested in what they can steal from us.

Joe

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It is called stealing and or double billing. Attempted theft . They agreed to the $1200 for a service. So unless the person AGREES to pay any amount they may ADD on top of the $1200.  They are attempting to STEAL MORE than they should charge.

They are crooks. Have no ethics.      You or I try that  garbage ??  They would be screaming THIEF    THIEF.

Why do Americans accept the attempted theft of their money ?   There is a serious wrong set of allowable corruption in force.

 

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1 hour ago, cyclops2 said:

Why do Americans accept the attempted theft of their money ?

Because they DO NOT SEE IT. If, as most of the country does, you get your insurance from an employer group plan you do not see the true cost of the BS.

You pay your premium each month and complain about it and the new co-pays or deductibles. You don't know or care what the employer pays, what the negotiated rates the ins and providers have set or how much tax money taken from you is directed at "Healthcare". Your field of vision lets you see rather mild effects from government or ins company changes. They see their co-pay or deductibles move up some every year. They don't like it but it is not a game changer.

On the other hand if you are one of the true minority, a small business owner, self employed, purchasing private coverage, etc. then you will see the true cost of healthcare and where the real money in healthcare goes. Guess what, it isn't to the doctors or nurses or big phara. It is eaten away by millions middle to low level administrators and clerks pushing paper, trying to either write new rules to be followed or trying to keep up with the last set of BS rules placed on them. Just depends on which side of the game you are on. Either way the only safe bet is that YOU the final user the lowest level of the pyramid is the one that pays for it ALL.

Interesting read on how we got here, not much help in how we get out of this mess.

http://www.neurosurgical.com/medical_history_and_ethics/history/history_of_health_insurance.htm

The same "Hide the true cost" approach has been running unchecked in higher education for the last couple of decades. Government backed loans to anyone to go college has hidden the price increases for a product that has seen an equal decline in product quality over the same period.

People do not see the true cost of a degree (excuse me, most, not all). Long term, even low rate student loans do not make a 100,000 deer "Gender Studies" or "Preforming Arts" degree much of a deal. While it is entertaining to have a "Theater Arts" graduate with 200 a month for 20 yrs degree ask you if you need anything else as you complete the check out at Target I don't see the advantage to. Her, society as a whole, her family. The only profit is to the money lenders. As "Student Loans" became easier to get college acceptance suddenly became easier as well. With this new stream of income they had to adjust curriculum to keep  the money moving. The cost grew, the degrees in BS grew and the suckers never even noticed.

I would not consider sending my child to a college today unless it was for either a STEM degree, law or medical. This country is knee deep in "Social" degrees.

Maybe we should look at something like this guy is doing and offer Nationwide Catastrophic only coverage (cheap) or let people keep tax free health spending accounts that can be carried over year to year.

http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/news/2017/03/08/atlasmd-founder-featured-on-fox-news-program.html

I don't have the answers, neither do they. Just I don't claim to.

Joe

 

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57 minutes ago, Guzzi said:

You don't know or care what the employer pays

It's box 12 on your W-2, if you get insurance thru your employer.

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I think Ivanka will be our first female president. My guess is she's learning the ropes for now. If Pence runs for president, have Ivanka run as VP. After that term is completed she should run to be president.

VLAD!  SIT!

th?id=OIP.Bq6BfcbWuztR3m3z09Rw2QEsCd&w=3

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On 4/1/2017 at 0:19 PM, Richard W said:

 

 

So i am curious if the state that Guzzi lives in had of opted for the expanded medicaid would his situation had turned out different?

 If so who turned down the expanded medicaid and did Guzzi hold those people accountable in NOV?    Or is this a situation where Guzzi like many of us didn't or don't  realize the real cost of not expanding medicaid.  Trying to get clear facts on this type of stuff is almost impossible without some political agenda.   I did see a quote where Georgia has the third-highest uninsured rate in the country at 13.9 percent.

Guzzi if you had of known that your govn or state legislator rejecting the expanded medicaid was detrimental to your own fiscal well being and more importantly your wife's health would you have voted differently?  Would this have been the biggest deciding factor in who gets your vote?  (If in fact this was the case)    

Meanwhile, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll this week found that 75 percent of Georgia voters, including 57 percent of Republicans, favor Medicaid expansion. That’s up substantially from the AJC’s poll in 2014, which found that 57 percent of all Georgians supported expansion.  Seems like there are a few big battles brewing in the Georgia General assembly.      

An while Guzzi says he doesn't care about how many people the ACA has helped and his feelings on this are likely a direct result of his situation. (understandable),  I have to think that the ACA is designed to help the most people possible and that there will be issues like this regardless of what system we had in place.   So the measure for success and failure of something like this would be,  are we as a country better off, not are we as an individual better off.   Of course everyone's opinion is based on their experience.   

The other question I have is would Guzzi's situation have been any better before the ACA? 

I think we often forget they skyrocketing cost of insurance before the ACA and the ability of insurance companies to deny you coverage because of a pre existing condition before the ACA.

I agree  Neither party is willing to sit down and put in the time to work out a real solution.  Why because both parties are sponsored by insurance companies and neither really want to bite the hand that feeds them.  An very few times do your representatives actually vote the way the people want. They stick to party lines not their district lines.  

I remember looking at the bill for my dad when he was in a hospice and there was a $55 charge for a bottle of $8 Robitussin.  

Guzzi not picking on you,  just had a few questions on the situation and how this could have possibly worked out better.   

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7 hours ago, Kwood92 said:

The other question I have is would Guzzi's situation have been any better before the ACA?

YES. We had a valid quote for a private policy to cover her after 10 months on Cobra (pre ACA). We were prepared to sign that day and forego Cobra but were told to wait out the ACA policy changes as ending Cobra was a qualifying event to go into a new ACA policy outside open enrollment.

By the time came to purchase Ga had NO ACA compliant policies available for individual purchase. 

Let me tell you how I have found a better way for us. (Temporary, next two yrs maybe). We take her last quoted monthly premium and bank it every month. We talk to her providers and offer cash for ALL normal services and request (usually receive) large cash pay discounts. SO FAR it has worked very well. She just takes her "Medical" checkbook when she goes for services or prescriptions. So far she has kept an ever growing balance. This is loosely based on our healthcare spending account we used for years while employed. YES, I understand the "Catastrophic" expense. Believe me I understand it. That is when you decide what is important to you. To me it was no choice. Hit the retirement funds in a heartbeat.  Could not think of anything I wanted more than her blaming me for everything wrong for many many more years.

I don't feel picked on but I do not feel like the majority opinion here. SO, what's new. Not one of you all is the first to disagree with me.

Want to clear up something though. I am NOT whining, complaining, angry, upset or any other descriptor you might think of. I am just relaying our personal experience. I don't get to make the rules. I only get to decide what is important to me and when it came down to it money meant nothing. Handed it over with a smile. No dreams of trips, cars, boats, no second homes, just  get her fixed. Will do it again tomorrow if it's needed. I cannot imagine being more happy.

All I am trying to point out is that if the government and their rules would just get out of the way I believe providers and patients will work it out. Just seems the more hands that touch something the greater the cost of the final product. (yes I know some people will be complete idiots and might die, however I also believe that after the first hundred or so do :scratchchin: the word will get out and people WILL do what they have to).

Joe

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On 4/4/2017 at 10:17 PM, Guzzi said:

YES. We had a valid quote for a private policy to cover her after 10 months on Cobra (pre ACA). We were prepared to sign that day and forego Cobra but were told to wait out the ACA policy changes as ending Cobra was a qualifying event to go into a new ACA policy outside open enrollment.

By the time came to purchase Ga had NO ACA compliant policies available for individual purchase. 

Let me tell you how I have found a better way for us. (Temporary, next two yrs maybe). We take her last quoted monthly premium and bank it every month. We talk to her providers and offer cash for ALL normal services and request (usually receive) large cash pay discounts. SO FAR it has worked very well. She just takes her "Medical" checkbook when she goes for services or prescriptions. So far she has kept an ever growing balance. This is loosely based on our healthcare spending account we used for years while employed. YES, I understand the "Catastrophic" expense. Believe me I understand it. That is when you decide what is important to you. To me it was no choice. Hit the retirement funds in a heartbeat.  Could not think of anything I wanted more than her blaming me for everything wrong for many many more years.

I don't feel picked on but I do not feel like the majority opinion here. SO, what's new. Not one of you all is the first to disagree with me.

Want to clear up something though. I am NOT whining, complaining, angry, upset or any other descriptor you might think of. I am just relaying our personal experience. I don't get to make the rules. I only get to decide what is important to me and when it came down to it money meant nothing. Handed it over with a smile. No dreams of trips, cars, boats, no second homes, just  get her fixed. Will do it again tomorrow if it's needed. I cannot imagine being more happy.

All I am trying to point out is that if the government and their rules would just get out of the way I believe providers and patients will work it out. Just seems the more hands that touch something the greater the cost of the final product. (yes I know some people will be complete idiots and might die, however I also believe that after the first hundred or so do :scratchchin: the word will get out and people WILL do what they have to).

Joe

PPACA is social engineering at it's finest.  Would be nice Guzzi if you were legally allowed to purchase a very inexpensive catastrophic policy which I assume you are over government legally allowed age limit and so unable to purchase one.  

I'm realizing that there are way too many people that look to the government for a hand out or to make their decisions for them as they are incapable to go through life without being lead around.

 As for that college comment, I learned that at least 20 years ago, I ran out of any government backed student loan eligibility  somewhere in my second year of college or so and so had to finish up with private loans.  There was no counseling of any kind back then, you showed up at the admissions window and at that point you'd learn that you hit the dollar limit and they'd hand you the brochures for private bank student loans. My student loans were beyond astronomical even by today's standards and wouldn't you know it, my wife from the same college has the same amount of student loans.  Good thing we hustled and didn't sit around and whine about it. 

 I have some younger relatives that are simply unable to function in the real world and become eternal students and just keep going all the way through their PHD's just to avoid the real world after trying out working for one year.  The colleges nowdays completely pamper the students beyond what I had though was reasonable as I am learning now that my oldest son's friends are all heading off to college next year.   

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1 hour ago, Chaparral Rider said:

PPACA is social engineering at it's finest.  Would be nice Guzzi if you were legally allowed to purchase a very inexpensive catastrophic policy which I assume you are over government legally allowed age limit and so unable to purchase one.  

I'm realizing that there are way too many people that look to the government for a hand out or to make their decisions for them as they are incapable to go through life without being lead around.

 As for that college comment, I learned that at least 20 years ago, I ran out of any government backed student loan eligibility  somewhere in my second year of college or so and so had to finish up with private loans.  There was no counseling of any kind back then, you showed up at the admissions window and at that point you'd learn that you hit the dollar limit and they'd hand you the brochures for private bank student loans. My student loans were beyond astronomical even by today's standards and wouldn't you know it, my wife from the same college has the same amount of student loans.  Good thing we hustled and didn't sit around and whine about it. 

 I have some younger relatives that are simply unable to function in the real world and become eternal students and just keep going all the way through their PHD's just to avoid the real world after trying out working for one year.  The colleges nowdays completely pamper the students beyond what I had though was reasonable as I am learning now that my oldest son's friends are all heading off to college next year.   

Chap I get what your saying but you are not comparing apples to apples.    I don't know when you went to school or where you went but for s#@$ an giggles lets say it was 1980 and it was a normal funded college.  The cost was around $2,100  The average cost for college tuition has increased 260%.  Wages haven't gone up that much so the percentage of your income dedicated to paying for college and college loans has increased.  As with every other aspect of life such as housing.  My dad use to tell me housing was about 15 to 25% of his income.  That is no longer the case for the majority of america.   So when you and I compare generations and how we did things it is not apples to apples.  I'm not saying this to say putting your head down and working hard to get over this obstacle is not the solution.  I am saying this to clear up what i believe is a false narrative. 

You know why college cost has gone up.   Enrollment has gone up from 53% to  94%  and this doesn't just included college as we know it, It also includes trades schools, community college an nursing.  "Growing college enrollment contributes to increased costs in two ways. It necessitates the hiring of more administrative staff, which can be costly. It also normally means that the expenditures, from state and federal government, per student is lower, again placing the burden of tuition and fees on students and families."     So when you went to college  the STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT were contributing more per student thus keeping cost down.    So while you may be against govt getting involved,  your college cost was actually supplemented by GOVT funding.   You just didn't know it. 

I do agree with you that colleges pampers students and parents pamper these kids as well.   However I like what the SC basketball coach said about this.....  You know what makes me sick to my stomach? When I hear grown people say that kids have changed. Kids haven’t changed. Kids don’t know anything about anything We’ve changed as adults. We demand less of kids. We expect less of kids. We make their lives easier instead of preparing them for what life is truly about. We’re the ones that have changed. To blame kids is a cop-out.”

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23 minutes ago, Kwood92 said:

Chap I get what your saying but you are not comparing apples to apples.    I don't know when you went to school or where you went but for s#@$ an giggles lets say it was 1980 and it was a normal funded college.  The cost was around $2,100  The average cost for college tuition has increased 260%.  Wages haven't gone up that much so the percentage of your income dedicated to paying for college and college loans has increased.  As with every other aspect of life such as housing.  My dad use to tell me housing was about 15 to 25% of his income.  That is no longer the case for the majority of america.   So when you and I compare generations and how we did things it is not apples to apples.  I'm not saying this to say putting your head down and working hard to get over this obstacle is not the solution.  I am saying this to clear up what i believe is a false narrative. 

You know why college cost has gone up.   Enrollment has gone up from 53% to  94%  and this doesn't just included college as we know it, It also includes trades schools, community college an nursing.  "Growing college enrollment contributes to increased costs in two ways. It necessitates the hiring of more administrative staff, which can be costly. It also normally means that the expenditures, from state and federal government, per student is lower, again placing the burden of tuition and fees on students and families."     So when you went to college  the STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT were contributing more per student thus keeping cost down.    So while you may be against govt getting involved,  your college cost was actually supplemented by GOVT funding.   You just didn't know it. 

I do agree with you that colleges pampers students and parents pamper these kids as well.   However I like what the SC basketball coach said about this.....  You know what makes me sick to my stomach? When I hear grown people say that kids have changed. Kids haven’t changed. Kids don’t know anything about anything We’ve changed as adults. We demand less of kids. We expect less of kids. We make their lives easier instead of preparing them for what life is truly about. We’re the ones that have changed. To blame kids is a cop-out.”

I agree with you. I paid for my college education with the GI bill and a part time job.  It is impossible to do that today with the cost of college.  Plus most college students can't find a PT job.  Times have changed since the sixties but not for the better.

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12 hours ago, cyclops2 said:

Trump will solve everyones problems. He gave me his  word. 

LMAO  His word is worth less than any politician i know of.        There are a lot of contractors who took him at his word and are now out millions of dollars.

 "The USA Freedom Kids said in a newly filed lawsuit the Trump campaign broke verbal agreements for performances at two events and refused to pay even a $2,500 stipend for the group’s travel expenses."       C'mon this is $2,500 he could at least man up and pay the 3 little girls who danced and cheered for him.

    

 

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27 minutes ago, Kwood92 said:

There are a lot of contractors who took him at his word and are now out millions of dollars.

That was his business model, sue me if you can.

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21 hours ago, Kwood92 said:

Chap I get what your saying but you are not comparing apples to apples.    I don't know when you went to school or where you went but for s#@$ an giggles lets say it was 1980 and it was a normal funded college.  The cost was around $2,100  The average cost for college tuition has increased 260%.  Wages haven't gone up that much so the percentage of your income dedicated to paying for college and college loans has increased.  As with every other aspect of life such as housing.  My dad use to tell me housing was about 15 to 25% of his income.  That is no longer the case for the majority of america.   So when you and I compare generations and how we did things it is not apples to apples.  I'm not saying this to say putting your head down and working hard to get over this obstacle is not the solution.  I am saying this to clear up what i believe is a false narrative. 

You know why college cost has gone up.   Enrollment has gone up from 53% to  94%  and this doesn't just included college as we know it, It also includes trades schools, community college an nursing.  "Growing college enrollment contributes to increased costs in two ways. It necessitates the hiring of more administrative staff, which can be costly. It also normally means that the expenditures, from state and federal government, per student is lower, again placing the burden of tuition and fees on students and families."     So when you went to college  the STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT were contributing more per student thus keeping cost down.    So while you may be against govt getting involved,  your college cost was actually supplemented by GOVT funding.   You just didn't know it. 

I do agree with you that colleges pampers students and parents pamper these kids as well.   However I like what the SC basketball coach said about this.....  You know what makes me sick to my stomach? When I hear grown people say that kids have changed. Kids haven’t changed. Kids don’t know anything about anything We’ve changed as adults. We demand less of kids. We expect less of kids. We make their lives easier instead of preparing them for what life is truly about. We’re the ones that have changed. To blame kids is a cop-out.”

 

21 hours ago, Kwood92 said:

Chap I get what your saying but you are not comparing apples to apples.    I don't know when you went to school or where you went but for s#@$ an giggles lets say it was 1980 and it was a normal funded college.  The cost was around $2,100  The average cost for college tuition has increased 260%.  Wages haven't gone up that much so the percentage of your income dedicated to paying for college and college loans has increased.  As with every other aspect of life such as housing.  My dad use to tell me housing was about 15 to 25% of his income.  That is no longer the case for the majority of america.   So when you and I compare generations and how we did things it is not apples to apples.  I'm not saying this to say putting your head down and working hard to get over this obstacle is not the solution.  I am saying this to clear up what i believe is a false narrative. 

You know why college cost has gone up.   Enrollment has gone up from 53% to  94%  and this doesn't just included college as we know it, It also includes trades schools, community college an nursing.  "Growing college enrollment contributes to increased costs in two ways. It necessitates the hiring of more administrative staff, which can be costly. It also normally means that the expenditures, from state and federal government, per student is lower, again placing the burden of tuition and fees on students and families."     So when you went to college  the STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT were contributing more per student thus keeping cost down.    So while you may be against govt getting involved,  your college cost was actually supplemented by GOVT funding.   You just didn't know it. 

I do agree with you that colleges pampers students and parents pamper these kids as well.   However I like what the SC basketball coach said about this.....  You know what makes me sick to my stomach? When I hear grown people say that kids have changed. Kids haven’t changed. Kids don’t know anything about anything We’ve changed as adults. We demand less of kids. We expect less of kids. We make their lives easier instead of preparing them for what life is truly about. We’re the ones that have changed. To blame kids is a cop-out.”

I graduated in 1999 and between my wife and I, we had right around $150,000 in student loans.  She graduated in my same class.  It seemed insurmountable at the time and we had to forgo a lot,  but because of it (college not the overly expensive school), I literally have at least half that much in my checkbook at any given time for day to day spending.  I hear the argument all the time on various media outlets that some person can't go to school because it costs so much....sure it does, that's a function of easy student loans and no reason to hold tuition down at public or private schools. Either make your labor or skill set more valuable via education or some type or start a business but just do it and quit the whining is what I always think.  

  

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4 hours ago, Chaparral Rider said:

 

I graduated in 1999 and between my wife and I, we had right around $150,000 in student loans.  She graduated in my same class.  It seemed insurmountable at the time and we had to forgo a lot,  but because of it (college not the overly expensive school), I literally have at least half that much in my checkbook at any given time for day to day spending.  I hear the argument all the time on various media outlets that some person can't go to school because it costs so much....sure it does, that's a function of easy student loans and no reason to hold tuition down at public or private schools. Either make your labor or skill set more valuable via education or some type or start a business but just do it and quit the whining is what I always think.  

  

Yep and my son's wife's sister has just graduated with a degree in Theater Arts. She is over 100,000 in debt and works as a cashier at Target because surprise, there are "very few"  high paying jobs in Theater Arts. More Theater Arts degrees than Theater Arts jobs. The only way I would recommend higher education today would be in the STEM subjects.

Joe

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1 hour ago, Guzzi said:

Yep and my son's wife's sister has just graduated with a degree in Theater Arts. She is over 100,000 in debt and works as a cashier at Target because surprise, there are "very few"  high paying jobs in Theater Arts. More Theater Arts degrees than Theater Arts jobs. The only way I would recommend higher education today would be in the STEM subjects.

Joe

My then girlfriend in college who became my wife started as a Psychology major (technically before you had to declare a major but was going down that road with her classes if I recall) and I managed to convince her to change it to a business major for this exact same reason.  Any degree is fine I suppose but the reality that comes along with the debt as well as the salary level lifestyle needs to be accepted.  You don't get to earn 50k and expect you are entitled to a substantially more lavish lifestyle then complain that someone somehow wronged you or that there is some sort of inequity working against you.  As it is, the tax code coddles you...I was there once.       

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5 hours ago, phills fan said:

Brag much? Weren't you the guy whining about your governor and all the taxes you pay. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't see this earlier...call it whatever you will...the point is college with the right focus and/or entrepreneurial spirit can be a catalyst to success. I'd be an auto mechanic like my dad was with barely two nickels to rub together bringing us up and and a worn out body today without the great equalizer of college or my wife would be a factory worker like her mom was instead of a successful entrepreneur.  You get what you work for in this world and you deserve what you endure....everything else is just noise and excuses.    

 

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To whomever fits the bill, (you know who you are better than I do) 

My wife and I are both contractors doing different things.  Both with multiple degrees and both quit the ' white collar ' jobs we had because we were sick of pompous asses. We respect anyone who busts their butt PERIOD! Anyone who doesn't can fade away from us we just don't have time to see how great you are.  

Some people are just bitches. 

 

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12 hours ago, Auggie said:

My wife and I are both contractors doing different things.  Both with multiple degrees and both quit the ' white collar ' jobs we had because we were sick of pompous asses. We respect anyone who busts their butt PERIOD!

Most of my career was contract work. I enjoyed the change of scenery so to speak on a regular basis. Only the last 20 years did I change my  M.O. and picked an easy job to sit at while putting my efforts into family instead of money. Fell in love with a woman I actually liked.

I worked with many "White Collar" "pompous asses" and worked with many "White Collar" people that outworked me or anyone else within sight. In complete agreement with you I respect effort. That is just normal for me, however it never slowed me down from taking acceptable amounts of cash from the "pompous asses" when they thought they needed me.

Joe 

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15 hours ago, Chaparral Rider said:

Didn't see this earlier...call it whatever you will...the point is college with the right focus and/or entrepreneurial spirit can be a catalyst to success

Agreed. However I believe it is still up to the individual person. I dated a woman that could easily be called a "Student". She had several advanced degrees. She remembered facts, dates and tested very well. School was easy for her. She could not think her way out of a wet paper bag. While she could answer any question on a test from the covered material, she COULD NOT apply any of it to the everyday world. She was LOST when it came time to figure out any problem on her own. I found it quite fascinating.  

But back to your statement. Correct Sir. Take the correct ingredients, make the effort and the cake comes out tasty.

Joe 

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3 hours ago, Guzzi said:

Agreed. However I believe it is still up to the individual person. I dated a woman that could easily be called a "Student". She had several advanced degrees. She remembered facts, dates and tested very well. School was easy for her. She could not think her way out of a wet paper bag. While she could answer any question on a test from the covered material, she COULD NOT apply any of it to the everyday world. She was LOST when it came time to figure out any problem on her own. I found it quite fascinating.  

But back to your statement. Correct Sir. Take the correct ingredients, make the effort and the cake comes out tasty.

Joe 

In my business, I tend to work with many Pompous Asses as clients, many are the ultra, ultra successful and wealthy in society...it is what it is and it develops certain skill sets to deal with.   As it turns out, most of them started out at the bottom and out worked and out hustled their piers.  I barely see it any more after this many years and yes, I can hear the comments already.  I also tend to work with people that have a complete lack of street smarts...not clients but colleagues. 

I would swear that too much education gives a sort of analysis paralysis but I recall college and there were many professors that really didn't do much at all outside of academia.  It was always a treat when a professor had actual, practical experience they would draw on.  

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Well I guess since I seem to be willing to comment here goes:

#1. COMMON SENSE as in don't look down on anyone

#2. RESPECT when its earned its deserved

#3. BEING HUMBLE. Knowing when to shut up

 

 All I'm trying to say is if people had more respect for any person who does what they can and works as hard as I have seen many people without a higher education work, along with some common sense and didn't have to brag about how much better they are it would surely be a better world we live in.

I have a few employees that are much better humans than I and I hope that I can always appreciate that. 

Sadly, the human race can be very disappointing

Enjoy your day,  auggie

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