Big Fun

E15 is coming to your city

21 posts in this topic

That's right, while we were enjoying our boats and soaking up the sun, the EPA was getting ready for 2017.  A mandated increase of ethonal blending for gasoline.  Already in 24 States and more called for by a 2005 obsolete law.  15% corn liquor is to darn much for our boat engines. Please write your Congress person, who is also up for reelection.

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31 minutes ago, Guzzi said:

They already screwed the trucking industry with ultra low sulfur diesel fuel. I guess it is our turn now.

Joe

Sulfur is a lot of bad things but it is a good lubricant. One of my last jobs in the industry was to survey the company's 76 domestic terminals, and lay out the additive injection systems to facilitate ULSD fuel. The thing I learned in a hurry was every location had a different requirement mostly due to the winter mix Kerosene blend. Helena Montana said they were at 90/10, which is a common blend. I find out an hour later that what he really meant was 10/90 as they used 90% Jet Fuel A in their mountain mix in the winter months as it gets down to negative 40 there.   The lubricity additive pumps there are triple the size I used elsewhere. All that said, based on what I've learned ULSD will eliminate a lot of illness in this country and now that there is enough history to lean upon, the engines seem pretty darn happy too. A side benefit in due to a lack of available tankage and distribution infrastructure, home heating oil has been almost phased out. That crap was ultra HIGH in Sulfur. Now if you are burning oil, it is likely the low sulfur off road diesel used in construction and farming. Like anything else, if the engine was designed to burn ULSD, then there are more benefits than downsides IMHO.   Now ethanol?????  Don't get me started.   The federal mandate for it's use in motor fuels actually expires this year and the farm/corn lobby has quietly worked on the lawmakers to up their market share. This at a time when we are drowning in domestic crude oil. It takes huge amount of fresh water to make ethanol, and if we read the tea leaves correctly, water is the next oil.    W

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29 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

Sulfur is a lot of bad things but it is a good lubricant. One of my last jobs in the industry was to survey the company's 76 domestic terminals, and lay out the additive injection systems to facilitate ULSD fuel. The thing I learned in a hurry was every location had a different requirement mostly due to the winter mix Kerosene blend. Helena Montana said they were at 90/10, which is a common blend. I find out an hour later that what he really meant was 10/90 as they used 90% Jet Fuel A in their mountain mix in the winter months as it gets down to negative 40 there.   The lubricity additive pumps there are triple the size I used elsewhere. All that said, based on what I've learned ULSD will eliminate a lot of illness in this country and now that there is enough history to lean upon, the engines seem pretty darn happy too. A side benefit in due to a lack of available tankage and distribution infrastructure, home heating oil has been almost phased out. That crap was ultra HIGH in Sulfur. Now if you are burning oil, it is likely the low sulfur off road diesel used in construction and farming. Like anything else, if the engine was designed to burn ULSD, then there are more benefits than downsides IMHO.   Now ethanol?????  Don't get me started.   The federal mandate for it's use in motor fuels actually expires this year and the farm/corn lobby has quietly worked on the lawmakers to up their market share. This at a time when we are drowning in domestic crude oil. It takes huge amount of fresh water to make ethanol, and if we read the tea leaves correctly, water is the next oil.    W

ULSD has worked out after the trucking industry and engine mfgs took a painful pill to swallow. I do not argue the merits of ULSD just pointing out the millions spent by the trucking industry to comply. I remember our delivery fleet ( apx 280 power units, 350 refrigerated trailers) during the changeover years cost us untold millions in not only engine fueling systems repairs but missed deliveries, dis serviced customers, towing bills, spoiled product, etc.  

Even still the ULSD conversion had a reason. This ethanol thing is pure political payback BS. Ethanol production is blowing through the available water in the central plains areas. We are looking at a huge problem when the Ogallala Aquifer gets sucked dry. Pumping this aquifer dry means no bread basket great plains any more. Read up on the water level issues with this critical (for food) aquifer.

Enjoy your payoffs politicians, you are literally stealing bread from our grandchildren to force us to buy your poor fuel.

In this we are one, more resources (water, material, human) and energy (diesel, gas and electric) goes into producing a gallon of ethanol than the energy contained in that gallon. Loose, loose, loose, only the politicians and their connected friends win. Just like this stupid Keystone pipeline. The darn pipeline would have been built years ago as the long proven safest way to transport this oil if it was not for Warren Buffet's railroad currently transporting that oil.

Joe

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I agree this an awful thing to have happen.   Lots of cars out there are only made to run on E10 also.   Just bought a machine with a little Honda 190 motor on it and it has a tag saying nothing more than E10 can be used.   Will any of the ethanol treatments out there help us with running E 15 in engines made for E10?

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What will/can boat manufacturers do to "accommodate" this?  Do you think they will start going to diesel engines or are there other ways for them to mitigate and promote new boat sales?  I have to believe there's an economic incentive to adapt.

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2 minutes ago, TexasPilot71 said:

What will/can boat manufacturers do to "accommodate" this?  Do you think they will start going to diesel engines or are there other ways for them to mitigate and promote new boat sales?  I have to believe there's an economic incentive to adapt.

If it is mandated then the engine mfg's will be forced to modify their engines to burn it. It can be done. In Brazil you can get 100% ethanol for your "Flex Fuel" engine.

However what can be made to work in cars can present problems in a boat environment. How will boat mfg's deal with this????

I think develop a line of smaller lighter diesels would be the best, safer than gas, better fuel economy than gas and not as many fuel issues as E-whatever, at least in the South. Problem is power output/longevity vs weight with current available diesels.

Joe

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35 minutes ago, Guzzi said:

If it is mandated then the engine mfg's will be forced to modify their engines to burn it. It can be done. In Brazil you can get 100% ethanol for your "Flex Fuel" engine.

However what can be made to work in cars can present problems in a boat environment. How will boat mfg's deal with this????

I think develop a line of smaller lighter diesels would be the best, safer than gas, better fuel economy than gas and not as many fuel issues as E-whatever, at least in the South. Problem is power output/longevity vs weight with current available diesels.

Joe

The aviation industry is facing similar issues with the EPA wanting to phase out the leaded avgas.  They seem to have lost their steam, but that's a common tactic of the EPA...to let things die down then slam the industry with the stupid rule when we are all lulled into a slumber.  Regardless, the emphasis was on creating diesels that would burn Jet-A and adapting them to the new aircraft product lines.  EPA should be quashed and all of them thrown in jail.

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31 minutes ago, TexasPilot71 said:

The aviation industry is facing similar issues with the EPA wanting to phase out the leaded avgas.  They seem to have lost their steam, but that's a common tactic of the EPA...to let things die down then slam the industry with the stupid rule when we are all lulled into a slumber.  Regardless, the emphasis was on creating diesels that would burn Jet-A and adapting them to the new aircraft product lines.  EPA should be quashed and all of them thrown in jail.

If we lived in a real world the regulators would work with industry. I fully understand REASONABLE regulation but this #$^% bent on destroying manufacturing path we are on is insane. If you don't build things you don't build wealth. You can only money trade for so long. A service economy is just passing around the same money with the pool of money being diminished by taxes at each exchange. Guarantied to fail.

I understand the problems with lead but having small aircraft falling out of the skies is a problem as well. I understand the need for clean air and water, they be bad. But I also understand the need to employ, feed, house, transport, etc millions and millions of people.

Joe

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Who can overturn The EPA,  Wall Street,  Ethanol bonds, Corn lobby,  & plain, outright greedy people ?    

 

AND we are still giving the gas & oil industry subsidies.    We are slaves on USA soil.  We have no voting power left to change anything.

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Monsanto will control the food, fuel and the country before long.       Ethanol is an environmental disaster.  It's actually worse for the climate but better for big business.    I don't get it.   If your whole pretense is this is better for the environment and it will save the world   then you find out it's the opposite why is it not being phased out.   Accept the losses and move on.   This is real stupidity  an corporate welfare at it's finest. 

 

 

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Powerful people in large companies are interested in boats. Just like us. Theirs are 300' bow riders. They need a lot more money from me. I do my best to help them.  ;)

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E15 is starting to show up at NOCO gas stations in my area. Won't touch it even if my F150 says it can.  But even the owners manual has restrictions on its use. I don't think I can just fill it up and go. I'd have to reread it again.

Isn't Brazil based on sugar cane?  As I've mentioned before, A documentary I watched maybe 10 years ago interviewed the industry in Brazil. They claim sugar cane is better than corn. The corn produced for our ethanol is the same corn fed to the cows that end up as hamburgers. Its also the same corn used for making corn syrup......Fake maple syrup,,,,,juice drinks........soda pop......snacks.....etc etc.

Ethanol and corn syrup is any good for any reason except for those who make money from it.

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Still think we are not slaves ?

I sold my soul to the country store.

Only Trump & tax free wealthy rulers can save us ?  :wub:

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Also to produce corn ethanol is like 1:1 ratio of fuel spent and fuel produced. Sugar cane ethanol is like 1:12. So 12x more productive so it actualy makes sense. 

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You would sabotage the corn / Ethanol pork barrel.  How would corn state senators get reelected ? You would DARE to lay off a US congressman ?  :P

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E15 is not legal in boats, by EPA rules. As folks have put gas in diesel tanks, and fuel into water tanks, mistakes will happen  

brick

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President-elect Donald Trump has made no secret of his disdain for the Environmental Protection Agency, saying the regulations it has put out are a disaster.  Bye Bye  E15 

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I love when regulation or taxes affect a lot of people and not just a small minority whereby the response to them is always 'fair share'.  Trumps arrival can't arrive soon enough.  

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