EricGT

Anyone drive with their surge brakes locked out?

43 posts in this topic

Trip coming up this Friday.

There is something wrong with my surge brakes- air in the lines, bad solenoid, leak, etc.

The shop doesn't have time to look at it until next week.  So, I am thinking about locking the brakes out via pin.

I know this is going to place extra pressure on the trucks braking.  However, the way it currently is working is going to tear my transmission up it bangs that hard.

Has anyone ever done this before?

EDIT- fittings tightened and lines bled, good to go.

No need to call the po-po.  :lol:

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I pull large, heavy, trailers with no brakes.

Any steep terrain, nope, ain't gonna trust just the truck brakes. I do have a "jake" brake on my power stroke. It's called a Banks brake. It helps ALOT.

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Eric, not knowing how far you are going, I would only "pin" the actuator as a last resort. I think you still have time to bleed the brakes and make the system right. Not hard, just helps to have a buddy helping.

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Crazy people among us ... :P

Not safe, not legal in PA and many other states. Think ignorance, negligence, liability ... got an umbrella insurance?

FWIW, the PA law requires brakes on all wheels on all trailers 3,000 lbs and more.

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What you're towing with matters.  I seem to remember you have a 1500 Suburban?

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Any car place can bleed the brakes.  Try that first. Still bangs ? cancel until right.

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14 minutes ago, Futzin' said:

What you're towing with matters.  I seem to remember you have a 1500 Suburban?

Close. Yukon Denali XL.

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I would live with the bang and tow with brakes. 

brick

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1 hour ago, Toddler said:

Get on the phone and find another shop. Or cancel thee trip.

 

:Twocents:

+1 Fix it or get it fixed, but don't hook it up and go down the road.

I am known to push the envelope, but not to that extreme.  Denny.

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I thought the bang was also from air in the system ?  If so. Get any mechanic to do the job correctly.

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15 hours ago, Richard W said:

Crazy people among us ... :P

Not safe, not legal in PA and many other states. Think ignorance, negligence, liability ... got an umbrella insurance?

FWIW, the PA law requires brakes on all wheels on all trailers 3,000 lbs and more.

So, with this PA law requiring all wheels having brakes, does that mean I can't travel through PA? I have 4 wheels but only 2 brakes. Does this apply to everyone or just PA residence who have a trailer?

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7 minutes ago, SST said:

So, with this PA law requiring all wheels having brakes, does that mean I can't travel through PA? I have 4 wheels but only 2 brakes. Does this apply to everyone or just PA residence who have a trailer?

Going to other states it gets wishy washy.  There was a case a few years back where there was cameras that caught speeders or red light offenders.  A court threw out it out against people from other states, because they couldn't have known about that.  In order for somebody to be guilty of a law technically they have to know about(doesn't mean the state has to advertise it though) and there has be mens rea, or understanding what you did. 

Only issue is going to be if you get pulled over and some cop starts snooping, going 65mph down the road whos going to know.

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1 hour ago, soldier4402 said:

Going to other states it gets wishy washy.  There was a case a few years back where there was cameras that caught speeders or red light offenders.  A court threw out it out against people from other states, because they couldn't have known about that.  In order for somebody to be guilty of a law technically they have to know about(doesn't mean the state has to advertise it though) and there has be mens rea, or understanding what you did. 

Only issue is going to be if you get pulled over and some cop starts snooping, going 65mph down the road whos going to know.

What happened to "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

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11 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

What happened to "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

that's why I said grey area when it comes to certain things in regards to traffic laws. 

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They all bang and clunk a bit. Makes me want to check mine and bleed them. You could always get the vacuum bleeder kit and do it yourself. Really not hard. 

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17 hours ago, Richard W said:

Crazy people among us ... :P

Not safe, not legal in PA and many other states. Think ignorance, negligence, liability ... got an umbrella insurance?

FWIW, the PA law requires brakes on all wheels on all trailers 3,000 lbs and more.

weight of the trailer or total load?

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Things like this usually refer to rated total/gross weight ... let me check ...

It is gross weight but not clear if rated or actual ... hmm? See and interpret yourself in (b)(1)(iii) exclusion ...

§ 175.123. Braking systems.

 (a)  Condition of braking systems. Braking systems and components shall be in safe operating condition as described in §  175.130 (relating to inspection procedure).

 (b)  Service brakes. A trailer shall be equipped with a service brake system. See 75 Pa.C.S. §  4502 (relating to general requirements for braking systems).

   (1)  The service brakes shall act on all wheels upon application except for the following:

     (i)   On interconnected dual wheels, the brakes may act upon only one wheel.

     (ii)   A vehicle being towed in driveaway-towaway operation.

     (iii)   A trailer of a gross weight not exceeding 3,000 pounds, if the gross weight of the trailer does not exceed 40% of the gross weight of the towing vehicle.

   (2)  The service brakes, when required, shall be capable of stopping the vehicle in not more than the maximum stopping distance prescribed in Table I.

   (3)  Surge or inertia type brake systems are authorized.

   (4)  The brake lining and brake fluids shall be of a type approved by the vehicle manufacturer or shall meet the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) standards (J998, January 1980)—see Appendix A (relating to minimum requirements for motor vehicle brake linings—SAE J998).

   (5)  Metal from the shoe may not contact the brake drums or rotors.

   (6)  A vehicle to which additional axles and wheels have been added shall be equipped with brakes on the additional wheels.

   (7)  Brake lines shall be approved for use as brake lines.

 (c)  Breakaway system. A trailer operated on a highway which is equipped with brakes or which has gross weight in excess of 3,000 pounds shall be equipped with a breakaway system which shall stop and hold the vehicle automatically upon breakaway from the towing vehicle.

 (d)  Air chamber push rod. The air chamber push rod travel may not exceed the manufacturer’s specifications maximum stroke allowance. See Chart 4 (relating to brake chamber push rod travel (typical)) for a drawing of the air chamber push rod.

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Well based upon the advice from more knowledgeable people than myself on this I scheduled an appointment at a truck repair center.

You guys are right, the combined weight without brakes is approximately 7k# which would overheat the brakes in stop and go traffic, I am sure.

However, the banging is horrible right now.  It got worse as time went on.  So my take is I may have a leak and the lines lost prime.

Hopefully it is an easy fix and I am safe for the trip to OCMD Friday.

I'm entering the 'Money Clip' into White Marlin Open.

 

:lol:

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19 hours ago, EricGT said:

Trip coming up this Friday.

There is something wrong with my surge brakes- air in the lines, bad solenoid, leak, etc.

The shop doesn't have time to look at it until next week.  So, I am thinking about locking the brakes out via pin.

I know this is going to place extra pressure on the trucks braking.  However, the way it currently is working is going to tear my transmission up it bangs that hard.

Has anyone ever done this before?

For a few months, I unwittingly drove with zero trailer brakes.  Boat and trailer are 10,000 lbs and the truck did fine.  So yes, you can, but I'm not going to comment on whether it's a good idea or not.  Obviously laws play a role in your decision making as well as other things like distance traveled, how often, where, terrain, quality and wear on current brakes, how fast, etc.  Your call, but as long as your truck can handle it, it CAN be done.

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3 hours ago, SST said:

So, with this PA law requiring all wheels having brakes, does that mean I can't travel through PA? I have 4 wheels but only 2 brakes. Does this apply to everyone or just PA residence who have a trailer?

As already said ... grey area or wishful interpretation. You will know for sure when accident happens, and police and/or courts are involved.

I am testing the state and provincial laws myself ... the cap on my truck is not electrically connected to the vehicle just because the dealer and manufacturer were not knowledgable how to do it without damaging truck's microprocessor controlled electrical systems. The old way of connecting to the trailer circuit simply does not work on many modern trucks.

My third brake light is not working ... which is okay in Florida where the vehicle is registered. Florida does not require the third brake light ... most other states and provinces I travel thru do require it. Time will tell.

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1 hour ago, Richard W said:

Things like this usually refer to rated total/gross weight ... let me check ...

It is gross weight but not clear if rated or actual ... hmm? See and interpret yourself in (b)(1)(iii) exclusion ...

§ 175.123. Braking systems.

 (a)  Condition of braking systems. Braking systems and components shall be in safe operating condition as described in §  175.130 (relating to inspection procedure).

 (b)  Service brakes. A trailer shall be equipped with a service brake system. See 75 Pa.C.S. §  4502 (relating to general requirements for braking systems).

   (1)  The service brakes shall act on all wheels upon application except for the following:

     (i)   On interconnected dual wheels, the brakes may act upon only one wheel.

     (ii)   A vehicle being towed in driveaway-towaway operation.

     (iii)   A trailer of a gross weight not exceeding 3,000 pounds, if the gross weight of the trailer does not exceed 40% of the gross weight of the towing vehicle.

   (2)  The service brakes, when required, shall be capable of stopping the vehicle in not more than the maximum stopping distance prescribed in Table I.

   (3)  Surge or inertia type brake systems are authorized.

   (4)  The brake lining and brake fluids shall be of a type approved by the vehicle manufacturer or shall meet the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) standards (J998, January 1980)—see Appendix A (relating to minimum requirements for motor vehicle brake linings—SAE J998).

   (5)  Metal from the shoe may not contact the brake drums or rotors.

   (6)  A vehicle to which additional axles and wheels have been added shall be equipped with brakes on the additional wheels.

   (7)  Brake lines shall be approved for use as brake lines.

 (c)  Breakaway system. A trailer operated on a highway which is equipped with brakes or which has gross weight in excess of 3,000 pounds shall be equipped with a breakaway system which shall stop and hold the vehicle automatically upon breakaway from the towing vehicle.

 (d)  Air chamber push rod. The air chamber push rod travel may not exceed the manufacturer’s specifications maximum stroke allowance. See Chart 4 (relating to brake chamber push rod travel (typical)) for a drawing of the air chamber push rod.

Ny says anything over 1000 unladen and 3000 loaded.  But only states good operating condition and nothing about all four.  In this instance if you are from NY and towing through PA and don't have all four nothing your going to get into trouble for.  Usually states(I say usually not going to say for everything) that require something else can not force that upon somebody from a different state that is just passing through or staying temporarily.  Some exceptions would be commercial rigs.  Not all state laws are enforceable to non residents.

 

What it really comes down to is common sense.  Im not towing across country without a proper set up, down the block to my normal launch I would.  Are LEOs going to pull you over just for fun to check, probably not, have they before yes.  Could you possibly open yourself up to liability in a crash possible, but I don't buy that argument all to much. 

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