yogi799

Two winterization questions

29 posts in this topic

Wingut and others, looking for some advice.

Been winterizing on my own for the last 3 years and so far so good, but two things continue to bug me a bit:

1. when i run my engine on the cocktail (1 unit of gas, 0.1 of two cycle oil and some stabi) from an external portable tank, I don't get any smoke out of the exhaust until I've run the engine for at least 5 minutes and it is hot. Why is that??? Is it because there is a lot of original gas in my fuel filter and I am not even beginning to feed my engine the cocktail until about 5 minutes on idle (or 1300 RPM as my manual suggests)? I just did this today and got a tonne of smoke only when the engine was hot and about 5 minutes into it.

2. looking for a specific answer here in my special procedure. rather than feeding my engine with AF from the bucket up above, I run it on recirculated AF for 5 minutes until hot using a water pump and by recapturing the AF coming out of the exhaust back into the bucket and pumping it back into the out-drive using muffs. This has served me well and I do that to make sure the engine runs on AF alone until the t-stat opens completely (please let's not debate my method for now, just the gist of the question). My question to Wingnut and other is: my AF gets pretty warm (about 120F, 50C) after 5 minutes and it is always recirculated back into the motor using muffs; do I run a chance of breaking anything in the out-drive, specifically, any inlet hoses/pipes that are part of the water suction system, or is 120F AF completely safe? Basically I was wondering because I assume boat makers assume typical lake temperature is well below 120 F (50 C) and I am feeding my boat something much warmer, but at the same time I wouldn't think any intake components are that sensitive. Am I good to go and 120F on the intake won't hurt anything? My impeller seems to be ok with it (already changed one after 3 years and it look and felt brand new). BTW, I do monitor engine temp and always shut it off when the t-stat opens; I am only asking about the inlet components, thanks.

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As long as you havent had freeze damage then............................................................

Unless you drain everything first your diluting your A/F with 3 gallons of water.

No need to "run" A/F thru the system. flush ,fog, drain , and just pour it into the engine.

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1. It takes about 5 mins + for the the treated gas to get threw the system. 

2. At the shop that does mine they just recirculate the antifreeze. So IMO it should be fine. 

When I did my other boat, I would run it on fresh water till it got warm, then switch to the Antifreeze.

 

.

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Who said I don't? That's why I don't want to get into that discussion. Thanks 

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1 hour ago, yogi799 said:

Who said I don't? That's why I don't want to get into that discussion. Thanks 

Then a simple "That's what I do" is fewer words and puts the issue to rest....

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Yogi, Yogi, your doing it all wrong. Proper winterization requires a move to Florida.   :D

FWIW, you are alot more detailed than I am. Of course I have a 14 year old boat. I just add fuel stabilizer, warm it up, change the engine and outdrive oils, restart and run for another 15 minutes or so, then drain all the water. I use my single point drain and after that pull off just about every hose and leave them disconnected and pull the blue plug out off of the round thingy at the bottom that Brick replaced earlier in the year. No anti freeze. Have been doing it this way forever without a problem. I would rather use the Florida method, though..........:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Toddler said:

You new it would happen.......:drink-buddy:

 

.

Yup, but I had faith that it wouldn't.... You answered my questions, thanks!! So your shop also captures AF and sucks it back in? For how long? Just curious.

50 minutes ago, tomnjo said:

Yogi, Yogi, your doing it all wrong. Proper winterization requires a move to Florida.   :D

 

Yup. I know... Still hoping that Wingnut will chime in and give me more detail... he knows a tonne.

 

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13 minutes ago, yogi799 said:

Yup, but I had faith that it wouldn't.... You answered my questions, thanks!! So your shop also captures AF and sucks it back in? For how long? Just curious.

Yup. I know... Still hoping that Wingnut will chime in and give me more detail... he knows a tonne.

 

Have never seen him steer anyone wrong, for sure. He does have a good background....

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5 hours ago, yogi799 said:

Yup, but I had faith that it wouldn't.... You answered my questions, thanks!! So your shop also captures AF and sucks it back in? For how long? Just curious.

 

Mine has a heat exchanger, so it only take about 5 minutes. It doesn't run threw the block.

When I did my 5.0 it would take most of the 4 gallons on the muffs, Before it ran out the exhaust. Then I'd add the 5th.

 

.

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Well, to get back to the point. As some has already mentioned. Without draining the block you already have about 3 gal of water in your mix. SO you could use -100 if your worried about it. More $$. Or just use one or 2 gal of -100. I have never done it that way, but I would like to see what the temp gauge is reading after 5 or 6 minutes.

One thing to remember, when water freezes it swells. When AF freezes is shrinks. So even a small mix is not a bad thing. But, 2 or 3 gal of water with -50 AF could be. But you must be using 6 or 7 gals of AF just to keep it flowing? 

Forgive me!! I just would not do it that way. Nothing wrong with it, provided the mix is right and using more AF than needed. 

      

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This thread was NOT to be about the method itself - and it was asked not to be twice in bold ( I guess it is extremely hard to communicate that ). Water IS DRAINED from the block before running AF. Nothing in the original post suggests otherwise.... with the clear intent NOT TO discuss the method itself.

Wingnut, if you are around, can you please chime in on the ORIGINAL QUESTIONS IN THE FIRST POST? thanks.

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8 hours ago, yogi799 said:

This thread was NOT to be about the method itself - and it was asked not to be twice in bold ( I guess it is extremely hard to communicate that ). Water IS DRAINED from the block before running AF. Nothing in the original post suggests otherwise.... with the clear intent NOT TO discuss the method itself.

Wingnut, if you are around, can you please chime in on the ORIGINAL QUESTIONS IN THE FIRST POST? thanks.

You asked a question, and in trying to stay away from  " method itself - and it was asked not to be twice in bold". That at times is hard to do because it can raise other questions.

I did say "forgive me" but as some one else said, you knew it was going to happen. I don't think anyone was try to sway you away from your method. Anyways, good luck.......... 

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On 10/30/2017 at 0:06 AM, yogi799 said:

Wingut and others, looking for some advice.

Been winterizing on my own for the last 3 years and so far so good, but two things continue to bug me a bit:

1. when i run my engine on the cocktail (1 unit of gas, 0.1 of two cycle oil and some stabi) from an external portable tank, I don't get any smoke out of the exhaust until I've run the engine for at least 5 minutes and it is hot. Why is that??? Is it because there is a lot of original gas in my fuel filter and I am not even beginning to feed my engine the cocktail until about 5 minutes on idle (or 1300 RPM as my manual suggests)? I just did this today and got a tonne of smoke only when the engine was hot and about 5 minutes into it.

2. looking for a specific answer here in my special procedure. rather than feeding my engine with AF from the bucket up above, I run it on recirculated AF for 5 minutes until hot using a water pump and by recapturing the AF coming out of the exhaust back into the bucket and pumping it back into the out-drive using muffs. This has served me well and I do that to make sure the engine runs on AF alone until the t-stat opens completely (please let's not debate my method for now, just the gist of the question). My question to Wingnut and other is: my AF gets pretty warm (about 120F, 50C) after 5 minutes and it is always recirculated back into the motor using muffs; do I run a chance of breaking anything in the out-drive, specifically, any inlet hoses/pipes that are part of the water suction system, or is 120F AF completely safe? Basically I was wondering because I assume boat makers assume typical lake temperature is well below 120 F (50 C) and I am feeding my boat something much warmer, but at the same time I wouldn't think any intake components are that sensitive. Am I good to go and 120F on the intake won't hurt anything? My impeller seems to be ok with it (already changed one after 3 years and it look and felt brand new). BTW, I do monitor engine temp and always shut it off when the t-stat opens; I am only asking about the inlet components, thanks.

The fog cocktail will not "smoke" as the old oil down the carb used to as the oil concentration is just not that high. At idle, your engine sips so it will take a while for the cocktail to actually get to the injectors. Fuel filter, low pressure fuel pump, high pressure fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and fuel rail all need to have their volume displaced before the engine begins to eat the witches brew. On a cool fuel system like mine, it takes about 20 minutes and I know when it begins to happen as idle quality degrades, and I pick up an odor in the exhaust. By that time, my 1 gallon protable tank is almost empty. The "smoke" is more steam than anything else.

I'm running on muffs this whole time, and then I shut her down and drain the raw water side of my cooling system. I change the engine and drive oil at this point as they are warm and ready. I then run her for about 20 seconds which allows the RV/Marine antifreeze to be sucked into the system through the muffs, from my elevated 5 gallon bucket, and I shut her down after about 4 gallons disappears. I now have re-established oil pressure and the new drive oil got circulated a bit. I understand how you do yours and 120 degree water is not an issue for your raw water system but as others have said, I'd drain her before I introduced your RV/Marine non-toxic antifreeze as it keeps the concentration of inhibitors and freeze protection higher. Most of your heat build is not from the cooling system water jackets themselves, but is from exhaust gasses mixing with the discharge water so the antifreeze heats up quickly. Your procedure does however mix by-products of combustion with the antifreeze that you will leave in the system all winter and some level of acid will form. W

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29 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

I'd drain her before I introduced your RV/Marine non-toxic antifreeze as it keeps the concentration of inhibitors and freeze protection higher. 

Uh oh... now you did it. You'r going to get yelled at in bold letters :)

 

"(please let's not debate my method for now, just the gist of the question)"

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Nah, Wingnut jumped right into the questions, which I always appreciate. OK, so the 120 deg AF is not an issue. THANKS!

I suppose the only thing of concern is this

Your procedure does however mix by-products of combustion with the antifreeze that you will leave in the system all winter and some level of acid will form

but perhaps this is minimal and nothing to worry about. I hope. Let me know if I am mistaken on this one and it's better not to run warm, recirculated AF all things considered. 

 

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3 minutes ago, yogi799 said:

 

Your procedure does however mix by-products of combustion with the antifreeze that you will leave in the system all winter and some level of acid will form

but perhaps this is minimal and nothing to worry about. I hope. Let me know if I am mistaken on this one and it's better not to run warm, recirculated AF all things considered. 

 

Think your over thinking it.  If you planned on keeping the boat for 40-50 years, taken this level of thought and care might actually preserve the engine.  Engines sit all the time.  MY sports cars sit all winter every year with nothing more than shutting of the key. 

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I get what you're saying and I agree. I simply like to have all the information and experts like Wingut are great to have around here to provide it. Don't worry, I don't have sleepless nights because of how I do it - it actually feels great to run the engine on nothing but AF but I just wanted to make sure warm AF does not have any immediate side effects, since very few people do it that way. Winters here can be extremely cold so I just try to make sure the AF has a chance to get in literally everywhere (and YES, the #%^$&%$ water is DRAINED! LOL)

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20 minutes ago, yogi799 said:

I get what you're saying and I agree. I simply like to have all the information and experts like Wingut are great to have around here to provide it. Don't worry, I don't have sleepless nights because of how I do it - it actually feels great to run the engine on nothing but AF but I just wanted to make sure warm AF does not have any immediate side effects, since very few people do it that way. Winters here can be extremely cold so I just try to make sure the AF has a chance to get in literally everywhere (and YES, the #%^$&%$ water is DRAINED! LOL)

Havent been doing it for years but over the last 20-35 years I have used pink AF on 4-5 different boats with no issues.  You should be fine.

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My winter procedure is to top of the fuel tank, water tank and ice chest. Head about 40 miles up lake to our favorite cove that is unavailable in the summer due to crowds and enjoy the lake all to our self. 

Sometimes it's a bit strange to be on such a large lake and not see any other boats. 

 

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21 hours ago, Phillbo said:

My winter procedure is to top of the fuel tank, water tank and ice chest. Head about 40 miles up lake to our favorite cove that is unavailable in the summer due to crowds and enjoy the lake all to our self. 

Sometimes it's a bit strange to be on such a large lake and not see any other boats. 

 

And cooler too. Only 101 there today, in the shade of course.  

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