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sburke91

Anyone know a (cheap) online source for ABYC electrical standards?

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One of my planned offseason projects is to add true shore power to the boat, replacing the simple 15A through hull that goes straight to the onboard charger with a 30A input, proper panel, and outlets for both the charger and a planned 120v/12v fridge. 

I picked up a pristine used EZACDC shore power panel for a song, and want to ensure I install everything to code.  Does anyone know an online source (cheap or free) to get the ABYC electrical standards?  I found a list here:  http://abycinc.org/general/custom.asp?page=StandardsList, but would rather not shell out $75 (I paid less than that for the panel!) for something I only need once.

 

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Just Google it. I found way too much stuff just to post it here.

One of the most VERY important thing is to install a "fail safe" galvanic isolator. Both A.C. & D.C. need to be grounded on the same bus.

If this system is not done right, when in the water you will eat up your anodes and than your drive. More importantly, anyone swimming around your boat could be electrocuted. Just this year new code standards have come out. The old GFI would trip at 100ma, now they want 30ma to trip.

https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2010/09/16/ground-fault-protection-for-marinas-and-boatyards/    

If your in fresh water, this is more important. Salt water will send the stray current to ground (the sea bed) were fresh will go after the closest thing. In other words, that person will get the full current shock.    

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Thanks. I plan to put a fail safe galvanic isolator in (#%^$&%$, they're pricy though).  Just from sitting in the (fresh) water for 4 months, my Mg anodes lost 20-25% of their mass, with some of it depositing on the stainless steel parts on the stern, and that's with only the charger connected to the shore power.

The one plus I have, from a safety standpoint, is that the docks were just redone, and the shore power's all new, so the GFI on each dock section is less than a year old, and meets the most recent standards.

 

 

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Other boats using the same SHORE ... MAIN ELECTRIC PANEL could be eating up the metal.

 

Strange how GFCI for a home were opening at about 6 ma way way back in time.  A qualified test by building inspectors of many GFCI breakers & outlets revealed at least a 19 % failure rate of house GFCI. 

GFCI DO NOT LIKE or survive short circuits very well or for long.   .006 amperes ( amps. )  is much LESS than 100.000 to 500.000 amps of a shorted out circuit.  That  .006 ma.  can increase to anything strong enough to keep your heart stopped.

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It used to be that USCG & ABYC both followed by LAW the NFPA land based electrical codes. Not sure any more if that rule is still in effect.  ABYC used to be a " Advisory Board. "  About electricity on boats.

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The big thing I'm trying to get a better bead on is any guidance around cable routing/securing (i.e. can it run next to DC wiring, what areas are off limits, etc.).  I'm pretty clear on the length limits to a breaker, cable type, crimped ring terminals at the ends, all that jazz, but am fuzzy on that first part.  

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3 hours ago, sburke91 said:

Thanks. I plan to put a fail safe galvanic isolator in (#%^$&%$, they're pricy though).  Just from sitting in the (fresh) water for 4 months, my Mg anodes lost 20-25% of their mass, with some of it depositing on the stainless steel parts on the stern, and that's with only the charger connected to the shore power.

The one plus I have, from a safety standpoint, is that the docks were just redone, and the shore power's all new, so the GFI on each dock section is less than a year old, and meets the most recent standards.

 

 

You mentioned a charger. Car chargers do not have the isolation that marine chargers do. That could be your problem, along with no galvanic isolator.

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18 minutes ago, Iggy said:

You mentioned a charger. Car chargers do not have the isolation that marine chargers do. That could be your problem, along with no galvanic isolator.

I was using 'charger' as a generic term.  It's this unit, which should be fully isolated:  http://www.promariner.com/en/52024

 

 

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ProMariner makes a very good charger. Great customer support too.

Then its your need of a galvanic isolator. You can also buy a Corrosion Reference Electrode. It could be the boat beside you too.

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1 hour ago, Iggy said:

ProMariner makes a very good charger. Great customer support too.

Then its your need of a galvanic isolator. You can also buy a Corrosion Reference Electrode. It could be the boat beside you too.

I agree on the charger/maintainer.  It's been a champ this year.  It's just time to build real shore power, mainly so I can put a fridge in and not have to remember to bring drinks to the boat every trip :D

I'm paying for the shore power at the dock, so might as well get as much value out of it as I can, even on a smaller boat.

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Anyone have recommendations on good 30A fail-safe galvanic isolators?  The ProMariner one looks very nice, but 250 deer is a lot for the size of shore power setup I'm putting in. 

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20 hours ago, sburke91 said:

Anyone have recommendations on good 30A fail-safe galvanic isolators?  The ProMariner one looks very nice, but 250 deer is a lot for the size of shore power setup I'm putting in. 

I would go with ProMariner, Newmar makes one that is 50 less but there not claiming to be fail safe.

As to running the wires: You can run them with the D.C. wires. Just me, I would keep them a few inches away from speaker wires. Other than that and you use good wiring common sense, you should be fine. So you should be using tinned strained wire, I would use butt connectors that have shrink tubing. Dielectric Grease on non tinned connections.

This place has good prices on wire. https://tinnedmarinewire.com/wire/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4&zenid=b88075c1e492a3c1c6afc147dbb1245a Remember, you can not use Romex wire that you would in your home.      

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Burke

Are you aware that Magnesium IS THE FASTEST METAL TO BE EATEN UP ?   The water your boat is in, can cause a PURELY CHEMICAL attacking of the Magnesium.

It is possible that sewage treatment plant UPSTREAM or a factory upstream can pump chemicals in to the water. Septic tank systems can be jury rigged with a Chlorine injector to help keep blocked up systems alive longer.

The massive amount of underwater LIGHTS is a great way to setup a galvanic current in the water. as a light cracks we now have D C & possibly some A C currents available.

I am not sure your  25% loss of Magnesium is NOT THAT UNUSUAL in your boating area. There are Aluminum electrodes available to last longer. 

Have you tried to remove the deposits on the props ?  Easy or difficult ?

Lots to check out......... Have you checked with several service managers & GOOD MECHANICS about your Magnesium loss rate in your area ? Other boats on your pier ?

Lots to checkout BEFORE changing anything.............. The Magnesium is PROTECTING the other metals from being eaten up ?  Preventing that white salty rough feel & look ? Usually the sterndrive housing near the prop hub thin edges.

You can be unlucky. Having Chemical water & bad dock or other boats causing the possible problem.  I recall that the galvanic currents CAN BE MEASURED with a meter.  OLD mind can not recall how it is done. Most modern cheap meters can easily read a couple of milliamps or millivolts very easily.  That will tell you if you have a problem or not.

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Yep.  I know MG's the most reactive metal, and definitely want it that way, as I'd rather replace MG anodes every year or two and clean the deposits vs. corrosion attacking the drive.  The amount of anode that's gone, after one season in the water, looks about in line with what it should be.  The deposits on the stainless ares are also somewhat expected, just annoying.  They come off with both a hard direct hit with a pressure washer and with a green scotch-brite pad.  The boat was previously a salt water boat, and had some corrosion on the edges of the drive, near the prop, but that didn't progress almost at all this year (I'm going to refinish the lower portion of the drive this off season).  

Putting the galvanic islolator in is more about getting this as perfect as possible and ensuring that my new shore power setup doesn't introduce a new path of electrical leakage.

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How many years of  Magnesium anodes can you buy for the price of a MAYBE, ALWAYS  correctly working electronic gadget ?

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Old mind is slow.  Have you done a COMPLETE VISUAL & twist the wires  CHECK  & with a Ohms meter. All the grounding wires to the metal fittings going intothe water ?  Repair & factory people are not always perfect. Some just are not trained enough or even care.

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I just did a search about marine DOCK, and MAIN PANEL GFCI.  Deadly contradictions is what I come away with.  The A C trip currents are ALL WAYABOVE your land house GFCI.

 

What the #$^% is going on ??   6 mas. on land is deadly.  In water dam near anything is ok  ??  Typical political   B  S..   So many people are shocked & killed in water near boats.

The Saint Lawrence River  ....... completely COVERED ALL  dock power outlets.............. DUUUHHHH  WEre they all changed ?   Really doubt it.

DO NOT SWIM IN WATER NEAR ANY DOCKS WITH ELECTRIC POWER. Only way to prevent shocks.   SAD  Very sad.

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I am really getting old.  Called Schneider Electric Co.    HA  HA  HA  Forgot it is Sunday.   Oh Well.  Monday I call the NEC / NFP agency to get a hopefully logical & safe GFCI answer on docks & power outlets submerged for weeks.  Can new House / land GFCI be used in boats / marinas.

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They just redid the whole marina last year (new docks, brand new shore power and water services), so everything should be to the absolute latest code.  I can testify that, at last as of August of last year, there were no noticeable stray currents in the water around by boat, as a mis-step while putting the cover on the boat sent me off the swim platform and completely into the water next to the dock.  The first thought that went through my head as I hit the water was "I hope the electricians did a good job".

The docks have a master GFCI setup (about a 2'x2'x1' panel), with warning lights and reset buttons at the top of each section of dock.  It popped a couple of times this summer, so appears to work, but I have no idea what current it takes to trip it.

 

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Disconnecting the power cable at the boat & tossing the cable to the dock . Might cause the end to flop over & into the water ? I have 1 sensitive GFCI in the kitchen area. It trips maybe 1 time every 2 years. for no traceable reason.

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Iggy has alot of good suggestions.....use tinned, stranded wire.  Be sure to use the same for the 120 ac cabling.  They make a marine 120v cable.  Use the correct sizes per amperage: 14gauge for 15 amps, 12 gauge for 20 amps, 10 gauge for 30 amps. Ok to run along with dc wiring.  Be careful of chafing hazards.  Don't run too close to heat sources.  Be sure to secure cable throughout all runs.  I've used the following website for info and wire a few times :  https://www.ezacdc.com/

I've also used defender and hamilton marine.  

Do you have a couple batteries?  You might need them if you get the fridge with dual power 12volt/120volt,

Good luck.

 

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On 2/11/2018 at 1:14 PM, sburke91 said:

They just redid the whole marina last year (new docks, brand new shore power and water services), so everything should be to the absolute latest code.  I can testify that, at last as of August of last year, there were no noticeable stray currents in the water around by boat, as a mis-step while putting the cover on the boat sent me off the swim platform and completely into the water next to the dock.  The first thought that went through my head as I hit the water was "I hope the electricians did a good job".

The docks have a master GFCI setup (about a 2'x2'x1' panel), with warning lights and reset buttons at the top of each section of dock.  It popped a couple of times this summer, so appears to work, but I have no idea what current it takes to trip it.

 

 To be sure, you need to use a corrosion reference electrode When you fell in, you were not hit by A.C. There still may be D.C. stray current in the water.

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