watson524

Insurance questions

32 posts in this topic

Hi all,

We're getting ready for the season (it'll start in NE PA eventually, right???) with the new boat and taking a look at insurance. We have Nationwide for everything, including our umbrella policy. In the past Boat US has never been able to beat their coverages/prices but now on the new boat, they are a bit better on price ($50/year) but coverages are different. I'm leery of switching because if it's not insured by Nationwide, it won't fall under our umbrella policy.

What kind of coverages do you all have on say liability, un/underinsured and Medical. The quote from nationwide has a replacement cost value (so I assume depreciated) and a comp and collision deductible of 500/1000 respectively.

I also noticed that the nationwide one has no coverage for personal effects and I think it should have about 250 - 500 coverage just in case some idiot steals all the life jackets or something.

thanks in advance for any thoughts!

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All umbrella policies have an underlying threshold requirement for primary liability coverage before they kick in. Most are around $300,000. If you get a quote on cheaper coverage, be sure it covers that minimum. For example, if your cut rate policy provides for $250,000, and you have a suit/claim for $500,000. you would be on the hook for the $50,000 differential until your umbrella would kick in. Call your agent first to ascertain what the minimum primary insurance your boat policy must have to bridge the gap before the umbrella kicks in. Also, my neighbor was a marine surveyor until he retired last spring and he always said if you want to see your claim paid on time and to your satisfaction, then buy a Boats US policy. Personally I use ACE out of Phila. and they have been good, but then again I've never had a claim.  W

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Yep, so just talking to my Nationwide agent, the umbrella requires 500k for liability so that's why he set it to that on the boat policy quote. Since if it's not insured by Nationwide it isn't covered under the umbrella at all, even if I got Boat US up from 300 to 500, it's still not going to hit the umbrella coverage. He revised a few things so I think I'm going to try to go back and have BoatUS re-quote it (they only had medical at 1k which isn't going to get you very far at all)

thanks!

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People can get good deals by sticking with one company and bundling specially if they do not have claims.  But with the same token people can be taken to the cleaners by staying "loyal".  Everybody should shop insurance yearly and at most every other year.  Really not  worth switching for a few bucks though realistically.  People also get a false sense of protection because they been with this agent or this company for 29.89 years.  Reality is you are a number and risk to them.  While some may get the benefit of the doubt by being loyal from time to time, but the truth is they will deny a claim or drop you just as quick if you  have been there for 1 year or 100.  This isn't bad mouthing insurance, they sell a service that covers risk, many people don't understand insurance and what they are paying for. 

My auto and toys are with USAA, which really cant be beat, if you can get in there, I would try it.  USAA does farm out some toys to foremost or progressive but are usually very good rates.  But I save $800 a year by not having my homeowners with them, that's exact coverage and everything with somebody else.

 

 

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Definitely agree about shopping around, that's what got me started on the BoatUS path. Our agent has our quad with Progressive because of how it played out, which I always thought was interesting since the sign outside his office says "Nationwide" LOL. We left Erie about 8 or 9 years ago because well, one the agent wanted to do nothing but collect checks, and two, they got too high for no more coverage. At least our Nationwide guy is proactive as renewals are coming and will email and say "hey let's talk about changing XYZ before the renewal" etc.

Plus now with having to switch things over from my mom to us, 2 houses, 5 vehicles (2 others insured with Grundy), trailers, backhoes, 100 acres of land, boat, quad, etc.... I feel like it's pretty nuts in my insurance world. LOL!

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What ever you do, try to get an Agreed Value policy on the boat, good liability coverage and coverage for your boat accessories.

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ALWAYS get a agreed value policy. My first 2002 186 SSI would pay the original new purchase price if totaled out today............... So I have paid $ 4,500 for 15 years . Company said the same $ 23,000 check would still waiting for me. IF I HAD kept that brand new 2002 boat.   Go for Agreed Value. I have Agreed Values on my cruiser & 2nd 2002 186.

I sleep very well with Agreed Value. The boats are on separate marine policies.

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1 hour ago, soldier4402 said:

People also get a false sense of protection because they been with this agent or this company for 29.89 years.  Reality is you are a number and risk to them. 

 

 

I disagree. I have been with my Agent / Broker for 30 years and we are on a first name basis. He shops my policies without being asked and contacts me when he finds better coverage that I should move too. 

My GF was in an accident and she called our agent from the scene and he sent an Uber to get her home on his dime. He also handled setting up the claim to get her car fixed using our policy and let the insurance companies battle it out after that. Made the whole process pretty much seamless. 

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2 hours ago, cyclops2 said:

ALWAYS get a agreed value policy. My first 2002 186 SSI would pay the original new purchase price if totaled out today............... So I have paid $ 4,500 for 15 years . Company said the same $ 23,000 check would still waiting for me. IF I HAD kept that brand new 2002 boat.   Go for Agreed Value. I have Agreed Values on my cruiser & 2nd 2002 186.

I sleep very well with Agreed Value. The boats are on separate marine policies.

Interesting, I just asked my guy about this and here's what he said:

Replacement value option stays on the boat for about 4 - 5 years, then it switches to actual cash value (that would include depreciation. They pay the cost for a new boat, even if the cost in the future is more than what you paid for it.

Agreed value is a pre determined amount agreed upon by us and the insurance company. It sets the max amount they will pay for the boat each year, not necessarily replacement cost. Agree value fades after the boat is a certain age as well, back to actual cash value. So in order, best to worst would be replacement cost, then agreed value, then actual cash value.

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I wen't down the road of trying to add an umbrella to our overall situation.  The problem is that we have a lot of homes and properties, vehicles, 4 wheelers, trailers, equipment, the chaparral and a wave runner.  Because of this situation, we have many insurance companies and multiple agents, some captive and some independent. No one company can offer coverage for our diverse mix of needs.  What I found was that the mere ownership of a PWC precludes some from offering an umbrella even if they will offer an umbrella on policies not written by them.  In other words they won't offer you an umbrella on everything but just exclude the PWC even if they provide the underlying coverage...just that they say no completely to the cover. Then a similar issue as you where a carrier won't offer an umbrella over policies not written by them.  So then it was off to Lloyds where they would offer an umbrella at a fantastically egregious price.  Given you are a boater, I assume you have a hefty net worth to protect and it is crazy that the umbrella is so hard to come by when ultimately it is the most important thing to protect your assets.  

Our insurance expense is astronomical.  

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2 hours ago, Phillbo said:

I disagree. I have been with my Agent / Broker for 30 years and we are on a first name basis. He shops my policies without being asked and contacts me when he finds better coverage that I should move too. 

My GF was in an accident and she called our agent from the scene and he sent an Uber to get her home on his dime. He also handled setting up the claim to get her car fixed using our policy and let the insurance companies battle it out after that. Made the whole process pretty much seamless. 

Remember I had the caveat of time to time.  Also remember being loyal to a broker and being loyal to one company is two different things. A broker is not an insurance company he shops your needs and gets a cut somewhere down the line, he doesn't work for specific company.  To each his own I shop my own stuff and find my own deals and cut that guy out saving me money.  Doesn't take long either.  That broker has more of an interest per say than that large company.  End of the day you are still a number and a risk, your risk rating is to high be prepared to be dumped or charged through the roof, it wont matter who you are.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Chaparral Rider said:

Given you are a boater, I assume you have a hefty net worth to protect and it is crazy that the umbrella is so hard to come by when ultimately it is the most important thing to protect your assets.  

Our insurance expense is astronomical.  

And trying to protect myself against some moron trespassing somewhere on my 100 acres of land that I can't even see and sure as he$$ didn't invite on the property from suing me when he trips and falls and gets hurt boggles my mind. I have to pay more to protect myself from someone else's illegal behavior. Oy!

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30 minutes ago, watson524 said:

And trying to protect myself against some moron trespassing somewhere on my 100 acres of land that I can't even see and sure as he$$ didn't invite on the property from suing me when he trips and falls and gets hurt boggles my mind. I have to pay more to protect myself from someone else's illegal behavior. Oy!

Oh tell me about it, one of my properties is a house on a ten acre plot of land that I bought in a popular resort area where there are no plots of land left as they were all subdivided many years ago.  I bought it just to have it and use the outbuildings for storage as it was such a unicorn but the people around there can't seem to comprehend that this beautiful piece of land isn't a public park to use as their will.  They won't adhere to my no trespassing signs and just tear them down.  You know as soon as someone gets hurt they are coming after me.  All of my properties except my primary residence are in individual LLC's for this very reason.  

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43 minutes ago, watson524 said:

And trying to protect myself against some moron trespassing somewhere on my 100 acres of land that I can't even see and sure as he$$ didn't invite on the property from suing me when he trips and falls and gets hurt boggles my mind. I have to pay more to protect myself from someone else's illegal behavior. Oy!

All states are different.  In NY you must keep liability on your car at all times regardless if you have it on the road or not.  So like me I store my car for 6 months of the year.  Living in other states I could put storage insurance on it(assuming there was no loan) that all it had was comp, which still protects against theft, fire etc.  Was told by the agent NY requires liability in the event somebody steals my car and crashes and hurts somebody,  some how I am still liable.  I don't get in this country how we are liable against uninvited persons onto our property.

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57 minutes ago, Chaparral Rider said:

I wen't down the road of trying to add an umbrella to our overall situation.  The problem is that we have a lot of homes and properties, vehicles, 4 wheelers, trailers, equipment, the chaparral and a wave runner.  Because of this situation, we have many insurance companies and multiple agents, some captive and some independent. No one company can offer coverage for our diverse mix of needs.  What I found was that the mere ownership of a PWC precludes some from offering an umbrella even if they will offer an umbrella on policies not written by them.  In other words they won't offer you an umbrella on everything but just exclude the PWC even if they provide the underlying coverage...just that they say no completely to the cover. Then a similar issue as you where a carrier won't offer an umbrella over policies not written by them.  So then it was off to Lloyds where they would offer an umbrella at a fantastically egregious price.  Given you are a boater, I assume you have a hefty net worth to protect and it is crazy that the umbrella is so hard to come by when ultimately it is the most important thing to protect your assets.  

Our insurance expense is astronomical.  

Insurance is needed, but it is racket as well.  In certain terms you should be able to take risk if you desire but states have forced you to have insurance regardless.  Whats also driven the need and cost for insurance is the willingness for courts to allow for liability in such a manner, courts and lawyers have in a sense created a cottage industry out of it. 

 

I would consider our family to be average in insurance needs, one house, a few toys, couple cars, life, etc.  and we pay probably 4-5k a year for total insurance, add that up for 20-30 years.  insane

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1 minute ago, soldier4402 said:

Insurance is needed, but it is racket as well.  In certain terms you should be able to take risk if you desire but states have forced you to have insurance regardless.  Whats also driven the need and cost for insurance is the willingness for courts to allow for liability in such a manner, courts and lawyers have in a sense created a cottage industry out of it. 

 

I would consider our family to be average in insurance needs, one house, a few toys, couple cars, life, etc.  and we pay probably 4-5k a year for total insurance, add that up for 20-30 years.  insane

I think our main house that we live in is about 4k per year by itself and that is with the the highest deductible they offer.  It's just nuts.  Adding my 16 year old on as a driver and buying him a car tripled our car insurance cost all of us having clean records.  Our outlay on insurance is kind of crazy actually when I think about it.  

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6 minutes ago, Chaparral Rider said:

I think our main house that we live in is about 4k per year by itself and that is with the the highest deductible they offer.  It's just nuts.  Adding my 16 year old on as a driver and buying him a car tripled our car insurance cost all of us having clean records.  Our outlay on insurance is kind of crazy actually when I think about it.  

well more house will be more money and where you live and history is also a factor.  Around here 4k is probably insuring a half a million dollar home or better. 

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Half million dollars here is just a tad over a starter home unfortunately.  Of course you can move out of the metro area and things get dramatically less expensive.  

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Just now, Chaparral Rider said:

Half million dollars here is just a tad over a starter home unfortunately.  

yeah east cost and west coat crazy.  Cousin lives in Cali makes double to triple what we do at multiple six figures, and house and asset wise actually has less.  Crazy the disparity.  A 500k home around here is netting you something probably in the 4-5k sq foot range, along with an out building, property etc.

Heck I went to NYC a month ago.  Parking my truck for 3 hours 80 bucks, one pizza $50 dollars, two drinks at the bar $30.  Back here at home, could have had two pizzas, gotten smoked and still saved money compared to NYC.  

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10 minutes ago, soldier4402 said:

yeah east cost and west coat crazy.  Cousin lives in Cali makes double to triple what we do at multiple six figures, and house and asset wise actually has less.  Crazy the disparity.  A 500k home around here is netting you something probably in the 4-5k sq foot range, along with an out building, property etc.

Heck I went to NYC a month ago.  Parking my truck for 3 hours 80 bucks, one pizza $50 dollars, two drinks at the bar $30.  Back here at home, could have had two pizzas, gotten smoked and still saved money compared to NYC.  

The bummer is this is Minnesota.  It's expensive to live here.  Oddly enough, The Economist did an article a few weeks back and showed that Minneapolis is the second most expensive city to live in only behind NYC but that excluded housing but included rentals because it was meant from the perspective of an Ex Pat.  I don't really know their logic or their methodology because it was an article referring back to the economist in our local paper and the economist had the details behind a pay wall.  I believe we continue as the third highest taxed state at the moment in addition to the high cost of living. The only upshot is that almost anywhere we move when the kids are gone will be less expensive.  

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crazy got to wonder what the driver is?  Typicaly cost is driven by demand, uniqueness or because they can think NYC or Beverly hills, or lastly its hard to get items say like Alaska or Hawaii.  I'm sure theres areas that fit some of those in minny, but overall I don't see any of these being that prominent in that state.  Unless were just dealing with rich people problems and isolated to certain areas.  Interesting though. 

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Just now, soldier4402 said:

crazy got to wonder what the driver is?  Typicaly cost is drive by demand, uniqueness or because they can think NYC or Beverly hills, or lastly its hard to get items say like Alaska or Hawaii.  I'm sure theres areas that fit some of those in minny, but overall I don't see any of these being that prominent in that state.  Unless were just dealing with rich people problems and isolated to certain areas.  Interesting though. 

I have a lot of friends who got relocated here from some other state, usually midwest or southern and they quickly learn that their lifestyle is going to be a lot less here.  Huge, fantastic home in a gated community in some other state becomes just an average house for the area here with the money they made from the sale, groceries, staples of daily living, boats, cars, service all have a big premium on them. I've met some that simply didn't quite grasp how big the difference was and not adequately negotiate salary as well. 

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you talking mainly the twin cities area, or is this state wide.  I know like the state of NY.  about a 2 hour radius from NYC its nuts.  But the rest of state has its areas for sure, but in general its not all to bad besides being stripped by crazy taxes at every turn,

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Its funny actually, housing gets far more sane when you leave the twin cities but when you head north for example such as where our lake house is, certain things are expensive and certain things are cheaper.  Food and staples are more expensive up there but services are a little bit cheaper.  A house not in a vacation area or not on a lake is dirt cheap up out of town.  I honestly think MN relies on the fact that people just don't realize how much it cost to live here and high prices just become hygiene.  It's why I try whenever possible to buy big ticket stuff on the internet.  I bough my current Chap here locally and by just about any other state's standards, I way overpaid but is what it is here.  

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20 hours ago, watson524 said:

Yep, so just talking to my Nationwide agent, the umbrella requires 500k for liability so that's why he set it to that on the boat policy quote. Since if it's not insured by Nationwide it isn't covered under the umbrella at all, even if I got Boat US up from 300 to 500, it's still not going to hit the umbrella coverage. He revised a few things so I think I'm going to try to go back and have BoatUS re-quote it (they only had medical at 1k which isn't going to get you very far at all)

thanks!

My state farm agent actually called me to make sure my primary boat policy from ACE had the necessary minimum liability coverage, so that my State Farm umbrella would kick in without any gap. My boat is listed as a line item on my umbrella policy also. Another option here in the northeast is to buy an in water policy like I did with my big Sea Ray. As our season is short, I used Boats US for the season, and had a dated off-season rider on my home owners policy to cover her while she was winter stored at my home. I was sure to vet the transport company yearly to be sure she was covered during the  25 mile trip from marina to my place. It seems like every company and every state has different rules of engagement.   W

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