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WaterDR

Jet skis....friends riding and liability.

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So, learned a little lesson and frankly i am a little ticked at Family.

we are avid jet ski owners and users.  It’s not something for the meek and inexperienced.

Daughter and wife we’re supposed to meet me at the launch, but instead....wife and wife’s friend did.  Wife’s friend has accident on the water.  Friend gets concussion and out of work for two weeks and other issues. Why?  She didn’t know what the F she was doing.

my new rule....no one drives my @#$%@# but me and my family.

things can go quickly bad and I seem to be the only one in the house that gets that.

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Did HE do a simple error.  Like I did at age 15. First time on water skis. Tried to break the ski with my forehead.  Last time I dated her. Still have a bone lump on head 65 years later

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In New York you have to take a safety course before you can ride one and have to have proof on you at all times.

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Well, I don’t live in one of those Nancy-lefty states....I live in WI where we can do almost anything :).  We can open carry, drink whilst boating and don’t even need plates for boat trailers.  It’s actually kind of nice.  As far as I know only those under 16 need to take a boaters Safety course.

as to drinking, if you get caught, it’s a $300 fine and not reported on you DL.

So in short....no....she didn’t know what she was doing.  

And now we have an awkward situation.

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I keep $1m liability insurance connected to my jet skis for that very reason. Pa requires a jet ski license but that might not stop my kids from letting their friend drive.

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1 hour ago, paulswagelock said:

I keep $1m liability insurance connected to my jet skis for that very reason. Pa requires a jet ski license but that might not stop my kids from letting their friend drive.

My homeowners umbrella kicks in at anything over it's required minimum primary coverage. Just be sure your primary boat liability policy meets or exceeds that minimum. For me that's 150m but some companies are as high as 300m, and if your boat contract is only good for say 200m, then you are on the hook for the other 100 large until the umbrella takes over.  W

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And this is one of many reasons I have gotten out of the small toy game, and with small toys I mean jet skis, sleds etc.  For one they are only really good for one person to ride at a time and I don't let anybody ride them just for the reasons mentioned above.  I also have three people in my family so for any particular sport I would need three machines. 

These toys cost an arm and leg new, cost just about as much to maintain and insure as a big boat or a camper.  End of the day not worth it anymore, more of a hassle then anything.

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13 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

My homeowners umbrella kicks in at anything over it's required minimum primary coverage. Just be sure your primary boat liability policy meets or exceeds that minimum. For me that's 150m but some companies are as high as 300m, and if your boat contract is only good for say 200m, then you are on the hook for the other 100 large until the umbrella takes over.  W

 

150m as in million or 150,000?  Mine is 300k at which mine kicks in.  Not sure I really need at this point but even being in my younger 30's my net worth has eclipsed the 300k mark by quite a bit and for 18 bucks a month it seems like a good idea.

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16 minutes ago, soldier4402 said:

 

150m as in million or 150,000?  Mine is 300k at which mine kicks in.  Not sure I really need at this point but even being in my younger 30's my net worth has eclipsed the 300k mark by quite a bit and for 18 bucks a month it seems like a good idea.

150,000. The exposure that scares me the most financially with even a minor boat incident is environmental exposure. A few down here in the bay have learned the hard way how expensive it can get to clean up even a minor fuel or oil spill. The Maryland MDE lurks around the fuel docks on Saturday mornings, ticket book in hand, but sinking your ride opens up a real nightmare even with zero injuries.  W

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10 hours ago, WaterDR said:

Well, I don’t live in one of those Nancy-lefty states....I live in WI where we can do almost anything :).  We can open carry, drink whilst boating and don’t even need plates for boat trailers.  It’s actually kind of nice.  As far as I know only those under 16 need to take a boaters Safety course.

as to drinking, if you get caught, it’s a $300 fine and not reported on you DL.

So in short....no....she didn’t know what she was doing.  

And now we have an awkward situation.

So is your beef with your wife for letting her friend drive the jet ski or is it the fear of legal action by her friend against you? I understand your frustration, just need better clarification.

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My beef is....a friend got hurt.  And it shouldn’t have happened.  And yes....boats and especially skis are a liability.  And we should have known better.

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1 hour ago, WaterDR said:

My beef is....a friend got hurt.  And it shouldn’t have happened.  And yes....boats and especially skis are a liability.  And we should have known better.

Like I said, I understand your frustration. Hopefully your family learned a valuable experience and her friend quickly recovers. A life lesson for us all to remember.

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3 hours ago, Wingnut said:

150,000. The exposure that scares me the most financially with even a minor boat incident is environmental exposure. A few down here in the bay have learned the hard way how expensive it can get to clean up even a minor fuel or oil spill. The Maryland MDE lurks around the fuel docks on Saturday mornings, ticket book in hand, but sinking your ride opens up a real nightmare even with zero injuries.  W

Very true.  I always go back and forth with insurance.  One hand its a worthwhile investment or protection.  On the other hand its legalized gambling and insurance always wins, they take in more than they pay out, in other words your chances of nothing happening is great.

Ive read though with liability insurance at least, it can be a magnet.  As in most lawyers/accuser will typically go for what you have on insurance which most people are covered by 300k for home and auto.  By having a larger policy and once a lawyer knows about it, he will go for that.  So who knows.

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I sold my 2 jet skis last summer. I always told people before they rode them, in  a very friendly conversation, that: You need a valid boat operators card, which is mandatory in WA state. Please take care of it, dont beat the crap out of it. If anything happens to it, such as an accident, we are not using my insurance as I dont want to get it cancelled, you are responsible for paying for it. This is my summer toy, we are on vacation, and if you damage it or break it, my vacation will be compromised. This always stopped some of the irresponsible people I know from wanting to go out and beat the crap out of it, which is why people want to ride other peoples jet skis. The responsible people understood this, and I was happy to let them use it after our conversation.

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2 hours ago, jimmerheck said:

I sold my 2 jet skis last summer. I always told people before they rode them, in  a very friendly conversation, that: You need a valid boat operators card, which is mandatory in WA state. Please take care of it, dont beat the crap out of it. If anything happens to it, such as an accident, we are not using my insurance as I dont want to get it cancelled, you are responsible for paying for it. This is my summer toy, we are on vacation, and if you damage it or break it, my vacation will be compromised. This always stopped some of the irresponsible people I know from wanting to go out and beat the crap out of it, which is why people want to ride other peoples jet skis. The responsible people understood this, and I was happy to let them use it after our conversation.

sad part though legally you are liable for just about anything they do on the machine.  Short of them stealing it or you writing an iron clad contract your machine your problem/

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Yea...that little speech while great, means nothing legally.

They smash it up, get hurt, hurt others....it’s 100% on the owner.

We had a dog who bit a child.  The child belonged to a very close family friend.  We no longer speak.  We were taken to court and sued.  We were 100% liable and never tried to defer the liability.

We don’t speak NOT because we got sued...that’s just part of the process.  We don’t speak because we refused to destroy  the dog.  It wasn’t the dogs fault....the dog was being a dog and the kid was being a kid.  

I paid out of my own pocket to have the dog evaluated by a vet and by a behavior specialist.  Both concluded that the dog was healthy and posed no harm.  The other family took this as a personal attack on them...as if I was blaming the child...ugh.

The dog was put up for adoption and was given to a couple knowing the dogs history based on legal advice I got.

i say this because people will say one thing, then when someone gets hurt, they can act like complete $^& holes.

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19 minutes ago, WaterDR said:

Yea...that little speech while great, means nothing legally.

They smash it up, get hurt, hurt others....it’s 100% on the owner.

We had a dog who bit a child.  The child belonged to a very close family friend.  We no longer speak.  We were taken to court and sued.  We were 100% liable and never tried to defer the liability.

We don’t speak NOT because we got sued...that’s just part of the process.  We don’t speak because we refused to destroy  the dog.  It wasn’t the dogs fault....the dog was being a dog and the kid was being a kid.  

I paid out of my own pocket to have the dog evaluated by a vet and by a behavior specialist.  Both concluded that the dog was healthy and posed no harm.  The other family took this as a personal attack on them...as if I was blaming the child...ugh.

The dog was put up for adoption and was given to a couple knowing the dogs history based on legal advice I got.

i say this because people will say one thing, then when someone gets hurt, they can act like complete $^& holes.

when people get hurt or their property gets hurt or in less terms there pocketbook/livelihood is in balance things change.  Just the way it is.  Ive always tried in situations like this to be fair and come to a conclusion.  Often times the accuser wants to much or sees their position more than what it really is, and on the flip side of the coin the defendant doesn't think its their fault or doesn't see any guilt on their behalf. 

 

Ive always stayed away from business with friends and family and also stayed away from lending any of significant value to just about anybody, takes away the guess work. 

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I do not even allow my best friends to sleep with my wife.   We all dine together after all these years.   :)

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Ha ha ha ha....

You know the golden rule....loan you Car, your boat, your tools, your wife to your friend and it comes back F _ _ _ _ED

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On 6/10/2018 at 9:26 PM, WaterDR said:

Well, I don’t live in one of those Nancy-lefty states....I live in WI where we can do almost anything :).  We can open carry, drink whilst boating and don’t even need plates for boat trailers.  It’s actually kind of nice.  As far as I know only those under 16 need to take a boaters Safety course.

as to drinking, if you get caught, it’s a $300 fine and not reported on you DL.

So in short....no....she didn’t know what she was doing.  

And now we have an awkward situation.

I guess she picked you guys to learn how. Lesson learned.

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I was just thinking about this situation actually.  We spend much of the summer at our lake house and like you we like to recreate on boats, waverunners, fourwheelers and sleds in the winter.  My oldest boy is 17 and the few times he comes up to the lake (as teens don't want to leave their social life if even for a couple days), all he wants to do is ride the SHO...which of course goes upper 60's on GPS (only because it is factory limited as all high power PWC's are) and gets there immediately which is a recipe for trouble with a teen.  Assuming his friends ever come up with him one, all I see is your exact situation.  The teens simply don't understand liability and the litigiousness of the American society and think it is just crazy talk.  We keep all of our houses in different llC's except for our main lake house and our primary residence in order to at least limit the liability if someone get hurt or whatever. 

I had the hardest time finding an umbrella to cover us and oddly enough some carriers would not provide a quote for the simple fact of owing a PWC even if they themselves provide the underlying coverage for the PWC.  We have a whole bunch of insurance companies and two agents to deal with the robust insurance we unfortunately are forced to have to purchase. 

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12 minutes ago, Chaparral Rider said:

I was just thinking about this situation actually.  We spend much of the summer at our lake house and like you we like to recreate on boats, waverunners, fourwheelers and sleds in the winter.  My oldest boy is 17 and the few times he comes up to the lake (as teens don't want to leave their social life if even for a couple days), all he wants to do is ride the SHO...which of course goes upper 60's on GPS (only because it is factory limited as all high power PWC's are) and gets there immediately which is a recipe for trouble with a teen.  Assuming his friends ever come up with him one, all I see is your exact situation.  The teens simply don't understand liability and the litigiousness of the American society and think it is just crazy talk.  We keep all of our houses in different llC's except for our main lake house and our primary residence in order to at least limit the liability if someone get hurt or whatever. 

I had the hardest time finding an umbrella to cover us and oddly enough some carriers would not provide a quote for the simple fact of owing a PWC even if they themselves provide the underlying coverage for the PWC.  We have a whole bunch of insurance companies and two agents to deal with the robust insurance we unfortunately are forced to have to purchase. 

supervision, educating, and teaching can go a long way.  But you are right you at open to a lot of possibilities.

 

Growing up we had a cottage.  Friends of ours on the other side of the lake had an incident where they let their kids out tubing on a boat by themselves(teens) one thing led to another and they ran over one of the kids with the boat and killed him.  Probably didn't help that the parents turned a blind eye to some other contributing factors.  But none the less they lost the cottage, and last I heard they had to file bankruptcy and were working on a divorce.  So it does happen. 

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5 minutes ago, soldier4402 said:

supervision, educating, and teaching can go a long way.  But you are right you at open to a lot of possibilities.

 

Growing up we had a cottage.  Friends of ours on the other side of the lake had an incident where they let their kids out tubing on a boat by themselves(teens) one thing led to another and they ran over one of the kids with the boat and killed him.  Probably didn't help that the parents turned a blind eye to some other contributing factors.  But none the less they lost the cottage, and last I heard they had to file bankruptcy and were working on a divorce.  So it does happen. 

Oh man...what a terrible story.  I really spent the time teaching my oldest how to drive the PWC as he was growing up.  Oddly enough it helped him be a more attentive car driver back when he was learning how to drive.  All that said, he's still a teen and makes stupid teen decisions sometimes.  We are on one of the largest lakes in MN and it is loaded with lake home owners with $$ to buy toys and that means tons of teens on PWC's all over the place.  I am actually surprised how many young kids I see on PWC'c.  Lots and lots of young female teens with literally no idea who they are cutting off, never glance back to see if a turn is safe, etc.  The low power Sea Doo Spark seems to now be the PWC of choice for the teens which at least is a slow machine.  They are downsizing from bigger and higher power machines which is good.  

My wife is bugging me to buy a boat for my 13 year old (and the 17 year old I suppose as well) so he can go out and fish and hang out on the lake as well.  He needs another year to be a legal boater however.  

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30 minutes ago, Chaparral Rider said:

Oh man...what a terrible story.  I really spent the time teaching my oldest how to drive the PWC as he was growing up.  Oddly enough it helped him be a more attentive car driver back when he was learning how to drive.  All that said, he's still a teen and makes stupid teen decisions sometimes.  We are on one of the largest lakes in MN and it is loaded with lake home owners with $$ to buy toys and that means tons of teens on PWC's all over the place.  I am actually surprised how many young kids I see on PWC'c.  Lots and lots of young female teens with literally no idea who they are cutting off, never glance back to see if a turn is safe, etc.  The low power Sea Doo Spark seems to now be the PWC of choice for the teens which at least is a slow machine.  They are downsizing from bigger and higher power machines which is good.  

My wife is bugging me to buy a boat for my 13 year old (and the 17 year old I suppose as well) so he can go out and fish and hang out on the lake as well.  He needs another year to be a legal boater however.  

Yeah its wasn't good.  But like I said there were contributing factors such as suspected alcohol which those parents usually turned a blind eye to half a 24 rack coming up missing nightly etc.  So like any suit all of the circumstances matter and I am sure if there was an adult on the boat doing everything right the suit probably would have wound up at least a little better.

 

Nothing wrong with kids using toys,  cant run life being risk adverse.  But if theres proper training, supervision and rules then things will turn out fine.  its when parents hand over keys and turn their backs things happen.

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