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Hatem

Ever witness a boating accident?

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7 minutes ago, Iggy said:

What that tells me, if the story is correct. No radar or GPS was in use. Also the dock owners, I would think were at fault too. At lest in Mass and I would think in other states, all docks must have some sort of lights on them just for that reason. 

So apparently this is the dock.  It has a light that blinks once every 2 seconds but he nor his buddies saw it and I can see why.  Cruising at 35mph you're probably going to miss that interval.  He also said that he took his eye off the water for a split second to reach down and turn on his radar which he did not have on and seconds later, the impact.  I'm not sure but does a concrete dock show up on radar?  I thought only metallic objects do.  I don't think I've ever seen docks show up on mine.

One thing I asked him and waiting for his response is why he didn't realize he was so close to the river bank?  He couldn't tell even without GPS or any electronics?  I know the dark can play havoc on your line of sight and focus and very difficut to judge distance, but looking at this pic, he had to be way off to the left and very close to shore to slam into that end of the dock.  First thing I thought of is why wasn't he in the center of the river where the channel would most likely be?

the_dock_96232af7274a904c372385376e5be5f

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Birds show up on many radars if within a 1/2 to 1 mile.

I NEVER go out more than 1 hour after sunset or clouds. I am PERFECT !!  The other guy has problems . He is not aware of.  I was on a 45' wooden cruiser next to the driver in a 30' wide channel as we approached the open end. Doing about a fast walk. I see see a small loaded canoe with man,woman , cild, baby held in womans arms. SLOW DOWN  SLOWDOWN I yell louder  to the driver next to me. The driver just looks locked up I reach for the wheel to steer around the canoe.  The canoest guy goes to panic speed padeling. We miss the canoe by less than a foot.  I got the boat driver fired & the USCG pulled his 6  passanger License.  He was no longer my casual friend.  Sad so sad to be a part of a near tragedy . Boating is nothing like cars.

Chili dog time.  :wub:

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To begin with you have to be nuts to run 35 mph at night.

35 mph in a car with head lights down a country road can be scary.  Denny.

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WE have better drivers in the club.

Broad daylight.  Runs OVER a floating swim platform and continues to the beach.  As the boat takes on water.

More G & T     P[ease.:captain:

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2 hours ago, Denny said:

To begin with you have to be nuts to run 35 mph at night.

35 mph in a car with head lights down a country road can be scary.  Denny.

Why? I run 30 MPH at night with radar on Lake St Clair. I only do that in open water. Obviously much slower approaching the canal and in the canal.

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I never see diddly at night with 1 foot waves or larger. I could run over 12 people & say . TREE BRANCHES.

So I do not drive at night in the boat. 

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15 hours ago, Denny said:

To begin with you have to be nuts to run 35 mph at night.

35 mph in a car with head lights down a country road can be scary.  Denny.

Agree.  Unless you know you're way out in open water like Bergen mentioned, it's not very safe even if you're familiar with the area. 

He definitely was way preoccupied with the engine performance and gauges than boat location and orientation.  That was some major complacency on his part to end up being that close to the river bank and not know it.  Just goes to show that no matter how much experience you have, complacency will inevitably get you.

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21 hours ago, rjbergen said:

Why? I run 30 MPH at night with radar on Lake St Clair. I only do that in open water. Obviously much slower approaching the canal and in the canal.

I don't have radar, but I too boat on the Detroit and St. Clair Rivers, along with Lake St. Clair and at night any times, I have been out there on black nights, where you can not see your hand in front of your face. My concern is what radar and you can't see, and that is something floating. For me I have to watch out for that NON-BOATER, running with no lights, or with a ball cap over his mast head light so he can see, hopefully where he is going. And now with all that LED stuff that people think it is cool to run with, instead of leaving it at the dock, it is no longer red, green, and white lights to help you navigate. That is one of the reasons that I boat Monday through Thursday, all the party people are off the water, and all I need to watch out for is the weather, and something floating.  Denny.

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Bingo Denny about the weekend nuts turned loose.   I ony take people in the small boat during daylight. I stay within 600 feet of my  docking area. If we get swamped by a idiot.  Almost a couple of times. We / adults can stand up & can put the kids back into the boat & walk to shore. 

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 7:33 PM, Denny said:

I don't have radar, but I too boat on the Detroit and St. Clair Rivers, along with Lake St. Clair and at night any times, I have been out there on black nights, where you can not see your hand in front of your face. My concern is what radar and you can't see, and that is something floating. For me I have to watch out for that NON-BOATER, running with no lights, or with a ball cap over his mast head light so he can see, hopefully where he is going. And now with all that LED stuff that people think it is cool to run with, instead of leaving it at the dock, it is no longer red, green, and white lights to help you navigate. That is one of the reasons that I boat Monday through Thursday, all the party people are off the water, and all I need to watch out for is the weather, and something floating.  Denny.

I still can't get over how he lost his positioning relative to the river/channel and was that close to the bank.  If you look at that pic, that dock is obviously way over to the side of the river and to slam into that blunt end of the dock means he had no idea where he was relative to the river bank.  And this fella didn't seem like someone who wouldn't take safety precautions seriously.  A family man with his own dental practice and family etc.  He made a terrible decision coupled with a large dose of complacency.  He got hurt pretty badly and is lucky it wasn't much worst TBH.  Really lucky.

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9 hours ago, Hatem said:

I still can't get over how he lost his positioning relative to the river/channel and was that close to the bank.  If you look at that pic, that dock is obviously way over to the side of the river and to slam into that blunt end of the dock means he had no idea where he was relative to the river bank.  And this fella didn't seem like someone who wouldn't take safety precautions seriously.  A family man with his own dental practice and family etc.  He made a terrible decision coupled with a large dose of complacency.  He got hurt pretty badly and is lucky it wasn't much worst TBH.  Really lucky.

Went night fishing with a buddy one night on an inland lake. We were casting with jitterbugs, we decided to move, we stopped a short distance away from where we were. I cast my line, and there was no sound of the plug hitting the water. So I got out my spot light, and shined it in the direction I cast my jitterbug. The reason for no sound was, because it landed in someones back yard. I like boating at night, but not without my Garmin, and fixed way points.

Everyone one my waypoints and routs that I have, I have personally been there to mark them.

One winter I planed a route to a place that I had never been. That summer I want there using the route that I had planed, I missed the entrance by 100yrds and was in 4 ft of water.  Denny.

 

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13 hours ago, Denny said:

Went night fishing with a buddy one night on an inland lake. We were casting with jitterbugs, we decided to move, we stopped a short distance away from where we were. I cast my line, and there was no sound of the plug hitting the water. So I got out my spot light, and shined it in the direction I cast my jitterbug. The reason for no sound was, because it landed in someones back yard. I like boating at night, but not without my Garmin, and fixed way points.

Everyone one my waypoints and routs that I have, I have personally been there to mark them.

One winter I planed a route to a place that I had never been. That summer I want there using the route that I had planed, I missed the entrance by 100yrds and was in 4 ft of water.  Denny.

And that's really the bottom line, using the GPS and radar.  I can't imagine cruising anywhere at nighttime without having both my GPS' on AND my radar, simply because your vision, orientation is cut by 75%.  Maybe even more.

The sad part about this particular accident is this wasn't some donkey or punkasss kid or a drunk at the helm.  He simply made a horrible decision thinking because he was so familiar with that area and way too preoccupied with the engines being fixed that he got complacent.

Heck my faults are the opposite.  I spend too much time looking at my GPS between checking depth sounds and bread crumbs even during the day.  Our harbor area has a lot of hazards and shallow spots that get even shallower at low tide.  And the funny part is I watch some of these guys who grew up in the area and have been boating it for 50 years since they were kids go flying through areas that you couldn't pay me $1 million to go through, and at 30-40mph! lol

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 7:33 PM, Denny said:

I don't have radar, but I too boat on the Detroit and St. Clair Rivers, along with Lake St. Clair and at night any times, I have been out there on black nights, where you can not see your hand in front of your face. My concern is what radar and you can't see, and that is something floating. For me I have to watch out for that NON-BOATER, running with no lights, or with a ball cap over his mast head light so he can see, hopefully where he is going. And now with all that LED stuff that people think it is cool to run with, instead of leaving it at the dock, it is no longer red, green, and white lights to help you navigate. That is one of the reasons that I boat Monday through Thursday, all the party people are off the water, and all I need to watch out for is the weather, and something floating.  Denny.

Floating objects? What's that? :scratchchin:

In regards to LEDs on boats...I couldn't agree more! They confuse the ability to determine which direction they are moving if they are moving at all.  I don't mind the stern underwater lights. They are not intrusive on the visual environment and they also help seeing it at night. I have noticed that some boats have such a huge dead rise and wake directly behind the boat, that the stern light goes below the crest of the wake and can't be seen by boaters behind it. Sometimes the underwater lighting will help.

But the decretive LEDs stink [the word I wanted to use begins with S and rhymes with truck].  One night, while entering into the Buffalo River this huge cruiser is in the channel. He's got the weirdest lighting set up. Really mysterious. Something out of Close Encounters.  I couldn't tell which direction he was going.  I could not locate either the stern light or the green/red nav lights. He kinda looked like a mini car ferry. 

I love cruising at night. Its like a whole different world. This past year was great because the sky was full of all the visible planets at the same time except for Mercury. I too have waypoints plugged into my GPS and stick to familiar areas. Of course, that doesn't always help as I found that submerged object. But even if it were daylight, I would have likely hit it anyways.

Just be careful

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Ever been in 3 feet of shore rocks at night & a quick fog smothers you ? 

I am anchored. I hear distant twin engine boat coming. Then I hear 2 guys on the boat arguing where they are going.

Finally I yell out.  You are almost on the rocky point . Need new props ?

GERKOFF !!  NO YOU ARE !  They argue. Finally they get into a WOT reverse.

OH WELL

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No accident.  Never planned to have or use a storm anchor in sand.

Nummies. With a sail up going sideways  along  a pier and pilings.   There is a time to leave a boat.  On the other side  Not get squashed like they did.   

I HAVE TO SAVE MY BOAT...……….. I do not have insurance.                     

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20 hours ago, cyclops2 said:

Not get squashed like they did.

That would be my worst fear in that situation, having the boat slam and pin you up against one of those pilings.  It's a little hard to watch because you know those people are kinda learning and didn't expect that wave to do that to the boat.

I'll never forget our first year with the boat and getting caught in a quick-moving storm that suddenly produced 6-footers and I had my family AND my brother in-law's as well in the boat and at several occasions, it felt like we were vertical coming off a few of those waves.  Then the boat slamming back down in the water was frightening as @#$^#^. 

I learned all about quartering waves that day.  Funny how you end up doing what you think is best during a moment of panic and then find out later that it is actually a learned technique. 

boat%20speed-waves.jpg

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Here's the full video to that sailing boat incident.  A bit tough to watch these older fellas struggle with the jib in headwind like that.  Plus it doesn't appear they had an outboard mounted to get themselves out of that situation faster.  Apparently they pulled out of the harbor and realized it was way too windy and furled the main sail and tried to go into the headwind with just the jib, which is pretty much an impossibility as you have absolutely no control of the bow.  That sailboat got destroyed.  Luckily no one was hurt badly.

 

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20/20 looking back opinion. First mistake was they went out in the first place. Did they check wind vs wave height? Hmmmmmm

Second error (guessing) is that as soon as they realized they couldn't get back in they should have turned back out to get distance from the shore line and pick a new beachhead to come ashore. 

Could they have turned it back out?

 

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High wind warnings tomorrow.  Here's the latest for Lake Ontario....sailing anybody?

SUNDAY South winds 15 to 20 knots becoming southwest and increasing to 50 knot storms in the afternoon. Rain showers. Waves 1 to 3 feet building to 14 to 18 feet. Waves occasionally around 23 feet.

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Those wind & waves DO  DO  come into the St. Lawrence River for a couple of miles.  No boats this time of the year. :ph34r:  The ground shakes up thru your shoes.

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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 3:54 PM, SST said:

20/20 looking back opinion. First mistake was they went out in the first place. Did they check wind vs wave height? Hmmmmmm

Apparently blow boaters see wind like that and they get the opposite feeling we do.  We're like nah, this is crap and not worth getting bounced around in heavy chop and waves.  They see this @#$%@# and they get all excited "wind, wohoo!" Just like the bald eagles of the north and golden eagles of the high mountains.  They see the autumn winds pick up and hey get all excited and start flapping their wings and don't even jump off of cliffs or branches.  They just open their wings and get immediately lifted and they love soaring in those winds and thermals, lol.

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 3:54 PM, SST said:

Second error (guessing) is that as soon as they realized they couldn't get back in they should have turned back out to get distance from the shore line and pick a new beachhead to come ashore. 

Could they have turned it back out?

I think they tried to get back, but tough sailing upwind with just the jib up, from what I know which isn't much.  Plus that jib didn't look like it was up all the way and something wasn't right with its lower connection as that guy seemed to struggle to repair it or tie it off so they can control it.

Plus the other 2 biggest mistakes is they probably didn't mayday soon enough and it's amazing how fast that crap happens.  They were out in front of the inlet and next thing you know, they were right up against the pier.  Looks like the harbor master showed up a bit too late.  That would've been a tough tie-off to do with that raging water and fast-approaching pier.  The other mistake is obviously no outboard or motor of any kind.  

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That sail boat plainly got to close to the shore line. As we all know, the closer you get the waves can get bigger. But sail boats have a much bigger keel than we do which makes them roll at lot less than power boats. Some of these keels have 2,000 to 5,000lbs of lead or lead and steel in them.  Maybe more, the longer the boat, the more wight in the keel.  So foot for foot, they are more stable. So a day that might be questionable for us to go out, might be OK for them. 

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R

Round hulls ROLL .  Even tied up to a BIG pier.  Sails down in 5 to 10 mph breeze. The tall masts & lines to it set up a lot of rocking leverage. Add in 12 " waves.  Rock a by baby in the forward berth. I like sleeping in a sailboat. Like a train berth at speed.

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