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Ottawaguy

Trim motor help

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I have a 2008 190 ssi with mercruiser ebgine. Was out for a cruise, docked somewhere (put up he motor a bit to dock) and when we left, the trim wasn’t working at all. We hadn’t done much, just docked and inflated something with 12v pimp plugged into the boat.

 

 It doesn’t even make any noise or clicking when we try to raise or lower trim. Tried the controls at the back of the bait near the ladder as well. I tried to replace the 20amp fuse it didn’t help.

 

any idea what could be wrong? I guess it could be solenoid, but I think I have a separate up and down, would both go out at the same time? 

 

I think there is also a 110amp fuse I can try to replace. Could it be this?

 

finally I suppose it could be a loose wire somewhere, I did try to push everything near the trim motor in, but it didn’t do anything.

 

 

any advice would be helpful.

 

thanks

 

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6 hours ago, Ottawaguy said:

I have a 2008 190 ssi with mercruiser ebgine. Was out for a cruise, docked somewhere (put up he motor a bit to dock) and when we left, the trim wasn’t working at all. We hadn’t done much, just docked and inflated something with 12v pimp plugged into the boat.

 

 It doesn’t even make any noise or clicking when we try to raise or lower trim. Tried the controls at the back of the bait near the ladder as well. I tried to replace the 20amp fuse it didn’t help.

 

any idea what could be wrong? I guess it could be solenoid, but I think I have a separate up and down, would both go out at the same time? 

 

I think there is also a 110amp fuse I can try to replace. Could it be this?

 

finally I suppose it could be a loose wire somewhere, I did try to push everything near the trim motor in, but it didn’t do anything.

 

 

any advice would be helpful.

 

thanks

 

First check for 12 vdc on the feed side of the solenoid bank. If it's hot there then check the harness plug for corrosion. You do have both up and down solenoids, and you kind of eliminated the switches as the cause as both your helm and transom switches are dead. You can also eliminate the trim limit switch on the drive port side as it only is wired into the trim up circuit. Could be a pump failure but I'm betting on the harness. Lets see if you have both power to the solenoids and confirm that the pump still has a good ground to it's negative cable.  W

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1 hour ago, Wingnut said:

First check for 12 vdc on the feed side of the solenoid bank. If it's hot there then check the harness plug for corrosion. You do have both up and down solenoids, and you kind of eliminated the switches as the cause as both your helm and transom switches are dead. You can also eliminate the trim limit switch on the drive port side as it only is wired into the trim up circuit. Could be a pump failure but I'm betting on the harness. Lets see if you have both power to the solenoids and confirm that the pump still has a good ground to it's negative cable.  W

I will test with multimeter that the 12 vdc is reaching the solenoid bank and that the ground is ok. If those things are both OK, it means something is wrong with the harness? A loose wire or corrosion could be the cause?

Also, I was going to try and connect the 12vdc directly to the blue or green wire to see if the pump will raise/lower the motor. I guess this will eliminate the pump.

 

I'll get back out there later on today and try to troubleshoot.

 

Thanks!

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53 minutes ago, Ottawaguy said:

I will test with multimeter that the 12 vdc is reaching the solenoid bank and that the ground is ok. If those things are both OK, it means something is wrong with the harness? A loose wire or corrosion could be the cause?

Also, I was going to try and connect the 12vdc directly to the blue or green wire to see if the pump will raise/lower the motor. I guess this will eliminate the pump.

 

I'll get back out there later on today and try to troubleshoot.

 

Thanks!

No...     if you have power and ground, then likely a pump failure. Going pump direct will answer that question but only do it for an instant as the spool valve will not be actuated and the trim pump is high pressure positive displacement design and during your 1 second test the oil will have no flow path until the integral safety valve opens.  W

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1 hour ago, Wingnut said:

No...     if you have power and ground, then likely a pump failure. Going pump direct will answer that question but only do it for an instant as the spool valve will not be actuated and the trim pump is high pressure positive displacement design and during your 1 second test the oil will have no flow path until the integral safety valve opens.  W

OK, great. If power isn't coming out of the solenoids, then it is just wiring or the solenoids right?

 

Is there any chance it is the 110 Amp fuse?

 

Thanks

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Posted (edited)

If everything else is working normally, no to the 110 amp fuse/breaker question. 

What do you mean by... "I tried to replace the 20amp fuse it didn’t help"?  Does this mean you replaced the fuse and the trim still didn't work, or you tried and couldn't replace it?

With a multi-meter, see if you have voltage or not per W's suggestion. 

Edited by Curt
removed the word "lights".

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1 hour ago, Curt said:

If everything else is working normally, no to the 110 amp fuse/breaker question. 

What do you mean by... "I tried to replace the 20amp fuse it didn’t help"?  Does this mean you replaced the fuse and the trim still didn't work, or you tried and couldn't replace it?

With a multi-meter, see if you have voltage or not per W's suggestion. 

I replaced the 20amp fuse with a new one. It didn’t make any difference.

 

i just tried again today and it sounded like it was working! I heard the noise that I thibk is normal. So I went to the back of the boat to try the one near the ladder (so I could watch the motor to see if it was working) and then it gave out as soon as I pressed the button. Now it is like yesterday, doesn’t even make any noise when I try to trim up or down. does that narrow things down?

 

i will make measurements sometime today to see if 12 vdc and ground is ok

 

thanks

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It sounds like something is causing the breaker to trip since you had power today.  There are a few possibilities.  Reset the breaker, and check for voltage where W suggested.  If you have voltage, the fault is a corroded connection, wiring, a solenoid/relay or the pump that when called into action, shorts and trips the breaker.

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Where would the breaker for the trim motor be? I have breakers under the dash where the steering wheel is. I didn’t see any for the trim

 

thanks

 

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You may not have a breaker, and might have a fuse instead.  You mentioned replacing a 20 amp fuse.  Given power today, I assumed you meant breaker.  Something changed that caused you to have power today, and then lose it again (assuming the noise you heard was indeed the pump).  Start with the fuse and confirm it's good.  If so, see if there's voltage in the socket with your multi-meter.  Start there and work back or forward depending on whether or not there's power.   

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it sounds like a loose wire.  making contact sometimes and sometimes not.  either a ground or something else is loose

 

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6 minutes ago, Curt said:

You may not have a breaker, and might have a fuse instead.  You mentioned replacing a 20 amp fuse.  Given power today, I assumed you meant breaker.  Something changed that caused you to have power today, and then lose it again (assuming the noise you heard was indeed the pump).  Start with the fuse and confirm it's good.  If so, see if there's voltage in the socket with your multi-meter.  Start there and work back or forward depending on whether or not there's power.   

So it appears if I turn the battery cut off switch near my battery on/off, it seems to reset something and the trim works (for a bit and stops again). I guess the voltages W wants me to measure are under this part that have the live power? There is a screw in the middle (I guess that is where power comes in) and then it goes out to the blue and green wires. I need to take this apart to find a place to measure if power goes out to the blue/screen wires. This is what W is requesting right?

331525051_trimpump.thumb.jpg.12fc4c60d54d54abf4dd6093a82c13da.jpg

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If I recall correctly, blue is up and green is down.  Black is negative.  Any chance you can post a picture not so close (it's a bit blurry to my eyes), and also of "the battery cut off switch near my battery on/off"?  I assume you tried what you did several times and had the same result - power then none. 

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42 minutes ago, Curt said:

If I recall correctly, blue is up and green is down.  Black is negative.  Any chance you can post a picture not so close (it's a bit blurry to my eyes), and also of "the battery cut off switch near my battery on/off"?  I assume you tried what you did several times and had the same result - power then none. 

IMG_0905_zpsyuasiuoz.jpgIMG_9227_zpsdeuqoixz.jpg

 

Here are two photos. There is a red knob next to the battery, it shuts off power to most of the stuff on the boat, but not everything. When I turn this know off/on it seems to temporarily recover the trim pump. On the right is a picture of the trim pump. There is a message that says "Warning screw is connected to battery positive!". When I measure the voltage here, I normally get about 12.6 volts. I was able to measure the screw where the blue wire is connected while it was in working state, while the motor was raising it was about 10-11 volts (I guess because the pump is taking power it isn't measure a full 12.6 anymore). It seemed like there was a current on the blue wire of about 10 to 11 vdc, regardless of the direction the trim was going (up or down), this was when it was working and moving.  Not sure if that makes sense.

 

However, when the problem happens, there is no voltage detected on the blue wire connection when I try to trim up or down. As well, the live screw connected to the battery positive, when I measure it in when things aren't working, it says 12.5 V or so (without pressing the trim up/down buttons) but as soon as I trim up or down the voltage drops to 0 until we release the trim button. This last bit sounds interesting, do you know what it means?

 

Thanks

 

 

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First...

(a) Does everything else in the boat electrically work?  Lights, horn, engine starts, etc.

(b) At the panel by the battery, you have a main breaker and one circuit breaker (the small black button).  Then you have two holes with nothing except labels.  While ordinarily this would be a concern, mounting plates and wiring harnesses often are universal and in your case the white paint is unbroken indicating it's unlikely anything was ever installed in either of these two holes.  Your terminals and lugs need a good cleaning, and re-torque when complete.  Please be careful not to create an accidental short when doing this.

(c) At the screw, you should have voltage nearly identical to battery output.  Please check the battery and compare.  You might have/also have a bad battery, or one that is not fully charged/fully recharging. 

(d)  The negative terminals require cleaning.  In addition, while the picture with the pump is blurry, it looks like one of the wires is frayed at the terminal and should be fixed.  But, please understand, I cannot tell for sure from the picture.  Before cleaning, please make sure nothing is bridged to either of the green or blue wires.  Assuming not, please be careful when cleaning and don't accidentally create a short. 

Continuing... 

(e)  Given your 2nd paragraph, where you state when things aren't working the voltage is 12.5, you have power where and when you should (it should always be live at the screw).  Which trim button causes the voltage here to drop to 0, or does this happen with each button?

(f)  In your 1st paragraph, you state "It seemed like there was a current on the blue wire of about 10 to 11 vdc, regardless of the direction the trim was going (up or down), this was when it was working and moving".  Blue should be live when moving up, and zero when moving down.  Green should be live when moving down, and zero when moving up.  I believe all of this points to a short.  What is the voltage on green wire?   

(g)  To further diagnose and isolate where the problem is, remove the blue wire and see if the trim goes down and stops when you release the button.  If it does, put the blue wire on, take the green off and then see if the trim goes up and stops when you release the button.       

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33 minutes ago, Curt said:

First...

(a) Does everything else in the boat electrically work?  Lights, horn, engine starts, etc.

Yes, everything else seems fine. Engine starts, radio starts, I was able to use the 12v lighter plug to inflate something. I didn't check the lights (never use it at night).

 

33 minutes ago, Curt said:

(b) At the panel by the battery, you have a main breaker and one circuit breaker (the small black button).  Then you have two holes with nothing except labels.  While ordinarily this would be a concern, mounting plates and wiring harnesses often are universal and in your case the white paint is unbroken indicating it's unlikely anything was ever installed in either of these two holes.  Your terminals and lugs need a good cleaning, and re-torque when complete.  Please be careful not to create an accidental short when doing this.

OK, will clean the terminus and lugs. 

 

33 minutes ago, Curt said:

(c) At the screw, you should have voltage nearly identical to battery output.  Please check the battery and compare.  You might have/also have a bad battery, or one that is not fully charged/fully recharging. 

Yes, they are the same. If I measure at the screw or at the battery. Hmm.. it is the original battery, about 10 years old (2008). 

 

33 minutes ago, Curt said:

(d)  The negative terminals require cleaning.  In addition, while the picture with the pump is blurry, it looks like one of the wires is frayed at the terminal and should be fixed.  But, please understand, I cannot tell for sure from the picture.  Before cleaning, please make sure nothing is bridged to either of the green or blue wires.  Assuming not, please be careful when cleaning and don't accidentally create a short. 

OK, will check.

 

33 minutes ago, Curt said:

Continuing... 

(e)  Given your 2nd paragraph, where you state when things aren't working the voltage is 12.5, you have power where and when you should (it should always be live at the screw).  Which trim button causes the voltage here to drop to 0, or does this happen with each button?

This happens with both trim up or trim down buttons (tested from the trim button on the boat throttle)

 

33 minutes ago, Curt said:

(f)  In your 1st paragraph, you state "It seemed like there was a current on the blue wire of about 10 to 11 vdc, regardless of the direction the trim was going (up or down), this was when it was working and moving".  Blue should be live when moving up, and zero when moving down.  Green should be live when moving down, and zero when moving up.  I believe all of this points to a short.  What is the voltage on green wire?   

I didn't check the green wire, its lower, harder to access. I can try again in the morning. If it was a short, I suppose it would be around where the solenoids are?

 

I was thinking of taking it to the marina to have them look at it. I guess if there is a short, I would probably have to take the trim pump out and give everything a good cleaning. I'm not sure I'm comfortable disconnecting all of that stuff.

 

Thanks!

 

33 minutes ago, Curt said:

(g)  To further diagnose and isolate where the problem is, remove the blue wire and see if the trim goes down and stops when you release the button.  If it does, put the blue wire on, take the green off and then see if the trim goes up and stops when you release the button.       

 

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For reliability and piece of mind when out and about, I'd purchase and install a new battery.  10 years is really good life.

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A quick check.  I looked at the picture again this morning, and even tried to enlarge while maintaining resolution.  The blue wire crosses the black fairly tightly, and there is a sharp bend in the blue.  In general, both of these things are something to avoid.  Setting that aside, the picture appears to show chafing on the blue wire where it cross the black and to the left.  Take a look in person at both the blue and black wires where they cross.  You might find they are chafed, and by separating them the short eliminated and everything works.  If this is the case, you'll need to repair/replace these wires as you see fit (in addition to cleaning all of the terminals, etc. as previously exchanged.). 

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