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CRAParral Never buy!

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23 minutes ago, Chaparral Rider said:

Once the mechanic had to take one of my suv's home to diagnose an issue...so over the weekend he decided to go ahead and joyride it with his friends off roading through the woods and it came back dented up and scratched all over.  That was a time waster for sure.  

Between 5 months to have anyone look at your boat and mechanics joy riding your car, remind me to never move to Minnesota 1000 lakes or wherever that is, bro.  Dang.

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On 7/10/2018 at 7:34 PM, bomboy said:

Yes, the story has been:

Dealer: It’s Chaparral’s fault. Talk with warranty. 

Chaparral warranty:  “Warranty issues are to be expected on a new boat.”

You’re right, I saved for a long time to buy this boat. 

Thanks for the advice. 

I'm on my 2nd Chap in 30 years and never experienced anything like you have, but I'm genuinely sorry for your experience.  That said, if ANY dealer (car, boat, RV, etc.) EVER told me to contact the manufacturer for warranty problems instead of being the conduit to them for me, I wouldn't hesitate to call them out publicly.  If I know what model and features I want, ANY dealer can sell it to me, so I expect the one I choose to act like they want my business.  If they wouldn't take a boat back and eat $1,000-2,000 of their own (or split the loss with the factory) then they would end up regretting their mistake by losing A LOT more than that from the bad publicity they're about to get.

To the ones who said they hold car manufacturers responsible for a car's tires - you aren't in the majority.  I should only need to reference Firestone tires to make that point.  They sucked up 75% of the costs involved in that huge scandal 20 years ago, even though Ford was the guilty party - not Bridgestone (Firestone).  Ford basically came out unscathed, while Bridgestone saw the value of their Firestone brand drop to zero and almost bankrupted the company.

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14 minutes ago, JimSchuuz said:

 

To the ones who said they hold car manufacturers responsible for a car's tires - you aren't in the majority.  I should only need to reference Firestone tires to make that point.  They sucked up 75% of the costs involved in that huge scandal 20 years ago, even though Ford was the guilty party - not Bridgestone (Firestone).  Ford basically came out unscathed, while Bridgestone saw the value of their Firestone brand drop to zero and almost bankrupted the company.

MEhh firestone had large systemic issue bad example there.  Ford sells the car to me they are on the hook for making it right under warranty for anything, I don't have to call firestone for them to fix it I take it to any ford dealer under warranty and its fixed period within a day or two.  Same goes for chap if your vendors for your power packs suck then move on or demand better QAQC, don't pawn it off on the customer like its their problem.  FWIW I would trust merc over chap any day of the week,  trust that power pack when it left the factory was working,  chap hooking it up right not so much.

End of the day who financially has the burden or where it comes out in the wash I don't really care.  But where I bought the item from and the sticker that is on the side is responsible for making it right.

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Don't get me wrong, the venting issue is really the only problem I've had (plus a few small things) with my H20 and have been very happy with it.  The dealer has taken care of all of them without question (even broken carpet snaps).  But like the OP, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a new boat not to have that any problems or leave you stranded.

Yes, the H20 is at the low end of the Chap line.........

 

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1 minute ago, JeffL said:

Don't get me wrong, the venting issue is really the only problem I've had (plus a few small things) with my H20 and have been very happy with it.  The dealer has taken care of all of them without question (even broken carpet snaps).  But like the OP, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a new boat not to have that any problems or leave you stranded.

Yes, the H20 is at the low end of the Chap line.........

 

that's what kills me you got guys in here making excuses or trying to make themselves and others believe buying a 40-50k boat and having issues is normal and ok.  Heck I've bought 3k lawnmowers that had no issues for 10 years. 

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On 7/10/2018 at 4:29 PM, bomboy said:

I wonder why a few of you are trying to turn this around on me?

 

You came in with some legitimate complaints and then proceeded to discredit yourself by using the term "CRAParral" many times over.  Initially, I was going to call your post out as just another drive-by hit piece, but after I continued reading and saw that your subsequent replies seemed more genuine I began feeling sympathetic to you and I wish you well.

It isn't just Chaparral, every brand has its own loyal base, and I agree that throwing the hand grenade isn't a great way to get genuine help or advice.  But I also understand your frustration, and I don't consider you as vile and vicious as you initially came off.

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9 minutes ago, soldier4402 said:

MEhh firestone had large systemic issue bad example there.  Ford sells the car to me they are on the hook for making it right under warranty for anything, I don't have to call firestone for them to fix it I take it to any ford dealer under warranty and its fixed period within a day or two.  Same goes for chap if your vendors for your power packs suck then move on or demand better QAQC, don't pawn it off on the customer like its their problem.  FWIW I would trust merc over chap any day of the week,  trust that power pack when it left the factory was working,  chap hooking it up right not so much.

End of the day who financially has the burden or where it comes out in the wash I don't really care.  But where I bought the item from and the sticker that is on the side is responsible for making it right.

I agree with the last paragraph, but you're wrong about Firestone.  According to the final analysis from the NHTSA regarding the scandal 4 years later, Ford was ultimately responsible because Bridgestone furnished ample evidence that they TOLD FORD to stop putting the soft-compound tires on cars destined for warmer states, and to increase the tire pressure instead of lowering it.  Ford was deliberately trying to soften the ride on the Explorer's chassis to compete better with Chrysler at the time, and that's why the decision was made in relation to the tires.  Ultimately, Ford was found to be at fault, but not until after Bridgestone settled most of the claims.

Since the entire tire debacle, most OEM tire manufacturers will no longer sell tires to individual automakers in bulk - they assemble the tires onto the rims and then the axles themselves, then ship them back to the assembly plants.

No, I don't work for any tire company or auto company, I'm in IT at an independent company.  However, both a (very) large European tire mfr. and a (very) large European automaker are clients of mine, so I'm privy to a little bit more of that information than the general public.

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1 hour ago, Hatem said:

Between 5 months to have anyone look at your boat and mechanics joy riding your car, remind me to never move to Minnesota 1000 lakes or wherever that is, bro.  Dang.

Don't forget about the 9.85% income tax, the 8% sales tax, the third highest cost of living including rentals but excluding housing and of course the 90 day summer.  It's not for everyone.  

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5 minutes ago, gr8lakes said:

It's not okay, but there's a path forward.

If you expect to buy a new boat defect free, have it work perfectly forever, and have the manufacturer compensate you for your vacations days off, thats frankly unrealistic.  You probably never owned a boat before, or youre disingenuous.

The OP did not ask for help, the OP asked no one to buy ever again.

We welcome all here on these forums seeking help, including representatives from other boat builders, and people who only started posting last week, which includes both soldier and bomboy, hmmm ...

Dont feed the trolls.

Mods: i recommend locking this thread.

Soldier is a seasoned poster.  These posts never stay the course anyway.  I like the different avenues they tend to go.  

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3 hours ago, Chaparral Rider said:

Don't forget about the 9.85% income tax, the 8% sales tax, the third highest cost of living including rentals but excluding housing and of course the 90 day summer.  It's not for everyone.  

Yeah I was just busting 'em on you.  90 day summer sounds familiar actually.  Sometimes it doesn't even really warm up enough and spring rains don't finally end until mid-June around here.  Then it's a 2-1/2 month summer and that's with an August that the days cool down very quickly by 4pm.  Sucks.

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19 hours ago, gr8lakes said:

It's not okay, but there's a path forward.

If you expect to buy a new boat defect free, have it work perfectly forever, and have the manufacturer compensate you for your vacations days off, thats frankly unrealistic.  You probably never owned a boat before, or youre disingenuous.

The OP did not ask for help, the OP asked no one to buy ever again.

We welcome all here on these forums seeking help, including representatives from other boat builders, and people who only started posting last week, which includes both soldier and bomboy, hmmm ...

Dont feed the trolls.

Mods: i recommend locking this thread.

I've owned many boats.  Do I expect a boat to work perfectly forever absolutely no, nor did I ask for vacation time.  You said all of that not me so nice try.  But I do expect a new boat to be defect free absolutely, matter of fact I expect anything I buy to be defect free and generally it is.  Stop making excuses for what looks like a manufacture that has some serious QAQC concerns.  Again I cant believe some of you actually have made yourself and try to make others believe this ok.

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We've been talking about quality control issues from the factory on this forum for several years, now.  This isn't anything new, really.  Nothing wrong with calling it like you see it.

And of course it's the dealer who is responsible for a new boat and its issues [DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD], not the engine manufacturer or the maker of the canvas or anything of that sort.  That's just crazy.  If a retailer chooses to sell a product, they are liable for "handling" the defects of that product, including dealing with the factory warranty themselves, not the consumer. 

The way I see it is that boating is such dedicated "seasonal" and "product" activity that unlike cars, the volume of boats produced and sold to the masses vs available dealers and especially trained technicians within those dealerships is lopsided to the max.  Way to many boats and people buying them than available entities and personnel to deal with the issues and problems.  That's what causes these types of strains.

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14 hours ago, Hatem said:

Yeah I was just busting 'em on you.  90 day summer sounds familiar actually.  Sometimes it doesn't even really warm up enough and spring rains don't finally end until mid-June around here.  Then it's a 2-1/2 month summer and that's with an August that the days cool down very quickly by 4pm.  Sucks.

Truthfully though, for us it has to do when school starts and ends for the kids anyway....summer as in the hot days could be 6 months but our boating season revolves around school.  

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On 7/9/2018 at 10:47 AM, bomboy said:

I bought a new 2017 H20 18 ft fish and ski last season. Here's how 2017 went

  • Broke down first trip on the water.  Power steering pump failed, alternator belt broke.  Needed tow back to dock. 
  • Missed a few days  vacation on the lake while the dealer fixed the issue. 
  • Took the boat out again, heard noise from the engine compartment.
  • Dealer said the power steering pump had failed again.
    • No boat or the fourth of July..New boat in shop
  • AC Plug for charging battery was loose, falling into gunwhale
  • Right side helm instruments and lights don't work
  • Gas tank would  ot take gas- Vapor lock
  • Two weeks later- Gas gauge fell out of dash!
  • Live well pumps water into bilge! 
  • Glovebox doors are coming loose screws fell out.
  • Tower pins are faulty

Took CRAParral all winter to figure out the service.  Many calls left unreturned from warranty.

Finally had the work arranged in May. 

They didn't send the parts. Waited another month. 

Had it all fixed. Now.. won't take gas again, and..... Left me stranded on the water, total loss of power while cruising, would not restart.  

Now Ashley Hibbard at CRAParral warranty says.  "Three weeks to get repair."  

I have a vacation paid for in two weeks.  

Awful brand, Awful Warranty personnel.  STAY AWAY FROM CRAPARRAL.  

IF you are readng this, DO NOT BUY!!! I might get my boat out three times this summer. 

Sound similar to my post" BAD ENGINEERING- BAD SERVICE" . I don't know how all of these guys can defend bad engineering no matter what the issue is . I admitted I was at fault for not trying the boat out ,but the point is , It's still BAD ENGINEERING . 

 

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Bought a new pontoon boat in 2012.  Tubes leaked.  End of season, I dropped off boat at dealer Yo be shoooed back to manufacturer.  All covered under warranty.

Boat was delivered back to me not only damaged, but there were signs that it had been previously repaired.

long story short....when manufacturerrr got it...it was damaged.  Thy repaired it.  When it got back to me....damaged again.

Dealer blamed wrapper.  Wrapper blamed shipper.  No one ever owned any of it.  So I sued the dealer with my insurance company.  Been 6 years now and still not settled.

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I get more honest as this post continues.  Ignoring Pontoons because they are so hot and just not on the used market yet, only a certain kind of person buys a new boat anyway in my opinion in my state at least.  Way too many almost new but used boats that someone bought, dealt with the warranty issues already and sold in a couple years of barely using it because owing a boat is more work than they thought and their lives interfered so much. I love that people buy them so there is a robust use market however.   

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32 minutes ago, Chaparral Rider said:

I get more honest as this post continues.  Ignoring Pontoons because they are so hot and just not on the used market yet, only a certain kind of person buys a new boat anyway in my opinion in my state at least.  Way too many almost new but used boats that someone bought, dealt with the warranty issues already and sold in a couple years of barely using it because owing a boat is more work than they thought and their lives interfered so much. I love that people buy them so there is a robust use market however.   

boats and travel trailers both.  Two items specifically that people buy and get way over their heads into and sell immediately with little to no use.  About 5 years ago I bought a 40ft fifth wheel that was 4 years old.  First owner bought it as a 401k retirement gift to themselves figured out hauling 12k lbs. empty wasn't ideal and sold it after 3 uses.  Second owner had it for 6 months and figured out the same thing. New sticker was 65, now I stole it but still cost me 18 and still had wrappers on cushions and stickers in unused sinks.  My first boat was a 15 year old crown  45 hours on it brand new paid 8k sold two years later for 9k, no way Id be out spending 4-5 times that to do the same thing.

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1 hour ago, Johnny G. said:

Sound similar to my post" BAD ENGINEERING- BAD SERVICE" . I don't know how all of these guys can defend bad engineering no matter what the issue is . I admitted I was at fault for not trying the boat out ,but the point is , It's still BAD ENGINEERING . 

 

Very similar post, from unknown users.

Both posts are fake.

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29 minutes ago, soldier4402 said:

boats and travel trailers both.  Two items specifically that people buy and get way over their heads into and sell immediately with little to no use.  About 5 years ago I bought a 40ft fifth wheel that was 4 years old.  First owner bought it as a 401k retirement gift to themselves figured out hauling 12k lbs. empty wasn't ideal and sold it after 3 uses.  Second owner had it for 6 months and figured out the same thing. New sticker was 65, now I stole it but still cost me 18 and still had wrappers on cushions and stickers in unused sinks.  My first boat was a 15 year old crown  45 hours on it brand new paid 8k sold two years later for 9k, no way Id be out spending 4-5 times that to do the same thing.

I get more utils of pleasure (recall  econ class) out of getting a bargain in the used market than simply buying a new boat, or car, or pick your thing. Of course, I can show up at the dealer and bring one home (whatever the item is) but I don't derive the same pleasure and satisfaction.  I like to spend 100 dollars instead of 150 dollars and keep that 50 dollars invested or used somewhere else.  

There's more to the story however.  Most toy items in MN aren't subject to our horrendous sales tax if purchased from a private party (it's horrendous because we are the third highest taxed state overall in the nation  and so in a vacuum an 8% sales tax may not seem terrible).  So that means when I buy a 4 wheeler, sled or a boat, they aren't subject to sales tax so long as they are from a private party which of course means a used item.  Income taxes alone eat up more than 50% of my income each year and so where I can manage my tax exposure, I do in addition to my utils explanation.  

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13 minutes ago, Chaparral Rider said:

I get more utils of pleasure (recall  econ class) out of getting a bargain in the used market than simply buying a new boat, or car, or pick your thing. Of course, I can show up at the dealer and bring one home (whatever the item is) but I don't derive the same pleasure and satisfaction.  I like to spend 100 dollars instead of 150 dollars and keep that 50 dollars invested or used somewhere else.  

There's more to the story however.  Most toy items in MN aren't subject to our horrendous sales tax if purchased from a private party (it's horrendous because we are the third highest taxed state overall in the nation  and so in a vacuum an 8% sales tax may not seem terrible).  So that means when I buy a 4 wheeler, sled or a boat, they aren't subject to sales tax so long as they are from a private party which of course means a used item.  Income taxes alone eat up more than 50% of my income each year and so where I can manage my tax exposure, I do in addition to my utils explanation.  

I don't want to sound like I'm crafty or mr smart guy as great purchases on used toys are plentiful just have to look.  I bought a new 2012 sled once last time I buy a new toy.  year and half later with 1200 miles on the clock I sent it down the road to some lucky guy for 6500,  still had a year of warranty left great sled. 

Here you have to pay sales tax on used cars and toys.  BUT most of them sell for 100 bucks or 500 bucks, wink wink.  Sales tax alone on a boat in NY rould run almost 4500 on a 50k boat.  Or I can pay 45 bucks like I usually do.  Truly not the whole story, as that 50k boat assuming little to no down a 5 % for 7 years(although I know most are doing 10 or 12 years)  Is now 65k with taxes.  No thanks

 

 cars for me are different I keep newer, but the equation in terms of use, cost, keeping them new works a little better than buying used. But that's a different story. 

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3 minutes ago, soldier4402 said:

I don't want to sound like I'm crafty or mr smart guy as great purchases on used toys are plentiful just have to look.  I bought a new 2012 sled once last time I buy a new toy.  year and half later with 1200 miles on the clock I sent it down the road to some lucky guy for 6500,  still had a year of warranty left great sled. 

Here you have to pay sales tax on used cars and toys.  BUT most of them sell for 100 bucks or 500 bucks, wink wink.  Sales tax alone on a boat in NY rould run almost 4500 on a 50k boat.  Or I can pay 45 bucks like I usually do.

 

 cars for me are different I keep newer, but the equation in terms of use, cost, keeping them new works a little better than buying used. But that's a different story. 

I would have assumed they would impute a value on whatever the item is so the wink situation wouldn't happen.  Interesting...if it was MN, they'd have put an end to that I bet.  We actually do pay sales tax on just the boat trailer and while at the dmv, the buyer states the value of the trailer.  Can't get the same umph from a trailer savings-wise.  As for cars, in a different life, I'd have been a car guy, in this one, I'm fine with buying them a few years old and then driving them into the ground however long that takes.  Other than driving to our lake houses all summer long, there is no time at which I could enjoy the power or performance of what a nice new vehicle offers given the reality of rush hour and in town traffic.  It'd be just a waste and frankly I don't care what others think of me while in my eleven year old vehicles which I know drives so many of my friends.

I sort of enjoy the restrained way we live in particular with our vehicles.  I almost like to make the point to people who know us and our financial situation that you don't need to have fancy vehicles.  So many people are so focused on their image, it just blows my mind.  I prefer that people not in my inner circle don't know about our status and those in the circle take a lesson in conservatism.  

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53 minutes ago, Chaparral Rider said:

I would have assumed they would impute a value on whatever the item is so the wink situation wouldn't happen.  Interesting...if it was MN, they'd have put an end to that I bet.  We actually do pay sales tax on just the boat trailer and while at the dmv, the buyer states the value of the trailer.  Can't get the same umph from a trailer savings-wise.  As for cars, in a different life, I'd have been a car guy, in this one, I'm fine with buying them a few years old and then driving them into the ground however long that takes.  Other than driving to our lake houses all summer long, there is no time at which I could enjoy the power or performance of what a nice new vehicle offers given the reality of rush hour and in town traffic.  It'd be just a waste and frankly I don't care what others think of me while in my eleven year old vehicles which I know drives so many of my friends.

I sort of enjoy the restrained way we live in particular with our vehicles.  I almost like to make the point to people who know us and our financial situation that you don't need to have fancy vehicles.  So many people are so focused on their image, it just blows my mind.  I prefer that people not in my inner circle don't know about our status and those in the circle take a lesson in conservatism.  

Seller has to input fair market value.  But the state doesn't seem to chase it down, no real way of  verifying it anyways.  Most people are fairly smart though and something that is 2 years old probably would be a little higher than 500 bucks.

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People lie all the time.  If you get caught you are screwed here.  The state knows what things should be worth and they will ask for photos and docs.

i know a guy that paid 10k for something and he paid tax on only 3k value.  He got caught.  They even contacted his insurance company and his stated value was 12k.  Moron.

he paid tax on 12k plus penalties.

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34 minutes ago, WaterDR said:

People lie all the time.  If you get caught you are screwed here.  The state knows what things should be worth and they will ask for photos and docs.

i know a guy that paid 10k for something and he paid tax on only 3k value.  He got caught.  They even contacted his insurance company and his stated value was 12k.  Moron.

he paid tax on 12k plus penalties.

what you bought it for and the  insurance value is two different things, I always buy things less than what the book says the are worth, sounds like the guy didn't have his story straight.  Get your cards straight and have everything lined up your fine.  Now I wouldn't be putting  500 down for something worth 50, but 500 for 10k if its old enough why not.

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