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boat crazy

2005 SSi 6.2 MX MPI Brav 3 Impeller(Sea Water Pump)

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 Hello All,

 

    Can anyone direct me to a good thread as to how to remove the sea water pump housing and impeller from my 6.2L MX MPI w/ Bravo 3.  I know its mounted on the front of the engine, but looking at the job the cool fuel filter is in the way...big time !   On the 6.2L model, what needs to come off in order to get good access to this impeller/pump ?

Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated

 

BC

 

 

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Well its inboard of it. You don't have to remore the filter toget to it.

I'm looking for more info for you.

 

.

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4 hours ago, boat crazy said:

 Hello All,

 

    Can anyone direct me to a good thread as to how to remove the sea water pump housing and impeller from my 6.2L MX MPI w/ Bravo 3.  I know its mounted on the front of the engine, but looking at the job the cool fuel filter is in the way...big time !   On the 6.2L model, what needs to come off in order to get good access to this impeller/pump ?

Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated

 

BC

 

 

I suspect it looks like the one on the attachment. Remove the drive belt, and if it has the auto drain system, remove the two little air actuator hoses from the air pump end and remove them with the pump as the pump end fittings are hard to access. There is a high vent hose also that just needs to be wire tied above the water line. Remove the bottom hose clamp on the back of the bump, and remove the quick coupler e-clip from the plastic quick dis-connect. (orange hose). Remove the idler pulley/belt tightener, and fixed idler pulley mounting bracket. This will expose the 2 pump retaining nuts, and also allows the pump to slid off as you pull it toward the bow. Hoses slip off pretty easily. When you reinstall the pump, place the e-clip back into the quick coupler slot before joining the coupler halfs together.  W

http://www.marinepartsplus.com/catalog/mercruiser/serial/6.2L_MX_MPI_BRAVO/884717003/12840-270

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17 minutes ago, Toddler said:

Well its inboard of it. You don't have to remore the filter toget to it.

I'm looking for more info for you.

 

.

Found the video

 

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Thanks everyone !  impeller failed while underway this weekend and luckily got her back on the trailer to do the work.

I appreciate the help !

 

BC

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Your pump is cast bronze, and can have an issue with housing groves on the end plates, as the metal is somewhat soft. Be sure to inspect both ends of the impeller cavity for deep scratches, and if they are there, then cost effective alternatives to a new pump do exist. A new impeller often fails to seal on a grooved housing and has trouble gaining prime upon each initial start-up. Also, a little dish soap, or vegetable glycerine makes the new impeller easier to install, and also provides for lubrication the first time you start the engine, as the pump will need to run dry for a few sections in order to gain prime. I always bucket test the pump by screwing a short bolt into the pulley stub of the pump shaft and running it up to speed with an electric drill. As yours is a 2005, I would also look for any signs of leakage at the front seal, and when you get the old impeller out, rotate the pump shaft to feel for any roughness in the bearing set. Typically 10 years is the service life on the pump bearings, and there is a shaft/bearing/seal kit available, but removing the pulley requires a specialized puller.  W

New Mercury Mercruiser Quicksilver Oem Part # 8M0050018 Driveshaft Kit

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On 7/14/2018 at 7:58 AM, Wingnut said:

Your pump is cast bronze, and can have an issue with housing groves on the end plates, as the metal is somewhat soft. Be sure to inspect both ends of the impeller cavity for deep scratches, and if they are there, then cost effective alternatives to a new pump do exist. A new impeller often fails to seal on a grooved housing and has trouble gaining prime upon each initial start-up. Also, a little dish soap, or vegetable glycerine makes the new impeller easier to install, and also provides for lubrication the first time you start the engine, as the pump will need to run dry for a few sections in order to gain prime. I always bucket test the pump by screwing a short bolt into the pulley stub of the pump shaft and running it up to speed with an electric drill. As yours is a 2005, I would also look for any signs of leakage at the front seal, and when you get the old impeller out, rotate the pump shaft to feel for any roughness in the bearing set. Typically 10 years is the service life on the pump bearings, and there is a shaft/bearing/seal kit available, but removing the pulley requires a specialized puller.  W

New Mercury Mercruiser Quicksilver Oem Part # 8M0050018 Driveshaft Kit

Thanks Wingnut !  Excellent tips.  I don't think my sea water pump assembly has the 2 little air actuator hoses(auto drain system components).

Not sure what where the high vent hose is ?  My boat is on the trailer out of the water....does the high vent hose pertain if the boat is in the water ?

With all that in mind, I thought my pump was all plastic..  do the auto drain system set-ups only have the cast bronze pump.?....it'll help once I get the pump out and take it apart and see what i got.  Your advise is well taken. I'll have to check the shaft/bearing for "play"  and get all the necessary parts to make it right.  All the above mentioned thoughts are much appreciated.

 

BC

 

 

 

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If you have the "Quick Crack Single  Point System" consider removing the block drain quick connects to insure drainage

or removing the entire system and go back to drain plugs.

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10 hours ago, boat crazy said:

Thanks Wingnut !  Excellent tips.  I don't think my sea water pump assembly has the 2 little air actuator hoses(auto drain system components).

Not sure what where the high vent hose is ?  My boat is on the trailer out of the water....does the high vent hose pertain if the boat is in the water ?

With all that in mind, I thought my pump was all plastic..  do the auto drain system set-ups only have the cast bronze pump.?....it'll help once I get the pump out and take it apart and see what i got.  Your advise is well taken. I'll have to check the shaft/bearing for "play"  and get all the necessary parts to make it right.  All the above mentioned thoughts are much appreciated.

 

BC

 

 

 

Go to Marine Parts Plus and plug in your serial number and it will show you a detailed exploded view of your particular system. I had to guess, but if you do not have the brass pump I referenced, then you will not have the high point vent hose which is part of the single point drain system. Plastic pump is cheaper to service and/or replace, but same basic rules apply. Case inspection, seal and bearing check, and lube the new impeller with a non-hydrocarbon based lube. W

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On 7/16/2018 at 5:55 AM, Wingnut said:

Go to Marine Parts Plus and plug in your serial number and it will show you a detailed exploded view of your particular system. I had to guess, but if you do not have the brass pump I referenced, then you will not have the high point vent hose which is part of the single point drain system. Plastic pump is cheaper to service and/or replace, but same basic rules apply. Case inspection, seal and bearing check, and lube the new impeller with a non-hydrocarbon based lube. W

I finally got the chance today to remove the sea water pump in a effort to determine why i overheated last time out.  I had to remove (4) 10mm bolts that held the Gen3 cool fuel filter to a bracket plus all that Wingnut suggested to get the pump out.  Once the cool fuel filter was pulled aside(no disconnections were made to the filter's hoses and gas lines..just moved it aside) After that I had a clear shot to the two stern inlet and outlet hoses as well as the entire pump assembly.

The moment I took off the pump's outlet hose, bits of impeller spilled out.  I then figured the impeller was shot. 

Once at the bench, I disassembled the 2 haves of the pump and found a destroyed impleller.

As Wingnut thought, the pump is Brass.

 

My question is....on the stern side half of the pump(the end that has the hose connections on it) it has a mildly deep groove in the brass where the impeller rides.  Should this half of the pump be replaced ?

The bow half of the pump were the pulley shaft is and where the impeller itself drops into, doesn't show much grooves.

The end play on the pulley/shaft assembly is tight....no wiggle/slop coming from the bearing assembly.  I'll leave that alone....

Just need to know what parts are available to address this stern half of the pump which is mildly grooved.

Thought I saw some sort of plate set-up that drops in the impeller cavity area and another that lays on the stern part of the pump that I have the grooves in 

Please advise.

Thanks for your help !

 

BC

 

pump -.jpg

pump2.jpg

pump3-.jpg

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You'll want to flush the system as good as possible. All those missing pieces can clog it up and cause overheating as well even with the new impeller installed.  

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11 minutes ago, Phillbo said:

You'll want to flush the system as good as possible. All those missing pieces can clog it up and cause overheating as well even with the new impeller installed.  

Whats an effective way to do this ?  This is a great tip.  

Is there are way to make some connections with a hose or something where flushing would cause loose pieces to exit from ?

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46 minutes ago, boat crazy said:

I finally got the chance today to remove the sea water pump in a effort to determine why i overheated last time out.  I had to remove (4) 10mm bolts that held the Gen3 cool fuel filter to a bracket plus all that Wingnut suggested to get the pump out.  One the cool fuel filter was pulled aside(no disconnections were made to the filter's hoses and gas lines..just moved it aside) After that I had a clear shot to the two stern inlet and outlet hoses as well as the entire pump assembly.

The moment I took off the pump's outlet hose, bits of impeller spilled out.  I then figured the impeller was shot. 

Once at the bench, I disassembled the 2 haves of the pump and found a destroyed impleller.

As Wingnut thought, the pump is Brass.

 

My question is....on the stern side half of the pump(the end that has the hose connections on it) it has a mildly deep groove in the brass where the impeller rides.  Should this half of the pump be replaced ?

The bow half of the pump were the pulley shaft is and where the impeller itself drops into, doesn't show much grooves.

The end play on the pulley/shaft assembly is tight....no wiggle/slop coming from the bearing assembly.  I'll leave that alone....

Just need to know what parts are available to address this stern half of the pump which is mildly grooved.

Though I saw some sort of plate set-up that drops in the impeller cavity area and another that lays on the stern part of the pump that I have the grooves in 

Please advise.

Thanks for your help !

 

BC

 

pump -.jpg

pump2.jpg

pump3-.jpg

The choke point of a cooling system with a heat exchanger is the inlet side of the exchanger, and that is likely where you will find the remaining bits of the impeller. If it's a raw water cooled engine then it's anybody's guess as to where they end up, but long story short, FIND THEM. Your hose manifold thrust plate is grooved severely and what will likely happen is that your repaired pump will not self prime. Over time, your old impeller mixed with sand and together conspired to wear out the thrust plate. The constant contact with the grooved plate caused the old impeller to wear in, conforming to the groves over time as they became deeper. Bad news is your new impeller will be dead flat, and will fail so seal against the grooved surface. These pumps must seal pretty tight as they need to pump air for a few seconds in order to prime, every time you start the boat. If you are lucky enough to achieve initial prime then she will go all day, but after she sits a few days, the water will drain down in the pump cavity and will not self prime.

Your options are buy a new pump, and if you do buy the Harden Marine stainless steel replacement as it has replaceable wear plates, and a larger shaft and beefier bearing and seal set. Uses the OEM impeller too. I repair the old housings using a red brass weld overlay but to do that you need equipment. Lastly, you can buy the repair kit that you mentioned, but then you must use their impeller which is 1/16" shorter as it must make room for the added plate. The only other comment I have is you are talking about a 2005 boat here, and if the pump is the original, then the bearings and seal set are on borrowed time. If it were me I'd buy the new pump from Harden.

http://www.hardin-marine.com/p-15774-stainless-steel-gen-7-sea-pump-for-mercury-350-496-and-502-mag.aspx

http://www.marine-496pump.com/

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3 hours ago, Wingnut said:

The choke point of a cooling system with a heat exchanger is the inlet side of the exchanger, and that is likely where you will find the remaining bits of the impeller. If it's a raw water cooled engine then it's anybody's guess as to where they end up, but long story short, FIND THEM. Your hose manifold thrust plate is grooved severely and what will likely happen is that your repaired pump will not self prime. Over time, your old impeller mixed with sand and together conspired to wear out the thrust plate. The constant contact with the grooved plate caused the old impeller to wear in, conforming to the groves over time as they became deeper. Bad news is your new impeller will be dead flat, and will fail so seal against the grooved surface. These pumps must seal pretty tight as they need to pump air for a few seconds in order to prime, every time you start the boat. If you are lucky enough to achieve initial prime then she will go all day, but after she sits a few days, the water will drain down in the pump cavity and will not self prime.

Your options are buy a new pump, and if you do buy the Harden Marine stainless steel replacement as it has replaceable wear plates, and a larger shaft and beefier bearing and seal set. Uses the OEM impeller too. I repair the old housings using a red brass weld overlay but to do that you need equipment. Lastly, you can buy the repair kit that you mentioned, but then you must use their impeller which is 1/16" shorter as it must make room for the added plate. The only other comment I have is you are talking about a 2005 boat here, and if the pump is the original, then the bearings and seal set are on borrowed time. If it were me I'd buy the new pump from Harden.

http://www.hardin-marine.com/p-15774-stainless-steel-gen-7-sea-pump-for-mercury-350-496-and-502-mag.aspx

http://www.marine-496pump.com/

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. 

My 6.2 engine is raw water cooled. Will this Hardin pump work on a 6.2; the link states 350,496,and 502. Its this the correct part number for 6.2 ?

So, besides pulling off various cooling hoses within reach and inspecting those for pieces, are there any other areas that are hot spots for pieces of impeller ?

As far as the Hardin pump goes, the points regarding the engineering of this pump seem much better than the stock brass pump. 

Does everything bolt up the same , stock brackets and all, with this stainless version considering the tight confines I'm working withe ?

Sounds like the best way to repair with this beefier unit considering the age of mine. 

Thanks for the details. Appreciate it !!

 

BC

 

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12 minutes ago, boat crazy said:

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. 

My 6.2 engine is raw water cooled. So, besides pulling off various cooling hoses within reach and inspecting those for pieces, are there any other areas that are hot spots for pieces of impeller ?

As far as the Hardin pump goes, the points regarding the engineering of this pump seem much better than the stock brass pump. 

Does everything bolt up the same , stock brackets and all, with this stainless version considering the tight confines I'm working withe ?

Sounds like the best way to repair with this beefier unit considering the age of mine. 

Thanks for the details. Appreciate it !!

 

BC

 

Ok. Just watched the video on the Hardin link. That answered some of my questions

Although,  with this stainless setup, I was not aware that I will still be using my stock manifold thrust plate. 

I suppose the plate you put in between there makes it ok to do...just want to clarify. 

Also,from the video, the hub on the inside of the impeller is larger due to the larger pulley shaft/bearing. They say it takes a stock Mercruiser impeller, but is the stock impellers center hub area large enough to press a stock one on there ?

 

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13 hours ago, boat crazy said:

Ok. Just watched the video on the Hardin link. That answered some of my questions

Although,  with this stainless setup, I was not aware that I will still be using my stock manifold thrust plate. 

I suppose the plate you put in between there makes it ok to do...just want to clarify. 

Also,from the video, the hub on the inside of the impeller is larger due to the larger pulley shaft/bearing. They say it takes a stock Mercruiser impeller, but is the stock impellers center hub area large enough to press a stock one on there ?

 

The impeller shaft on the Harden is machined down on the end to accept the stock impeller. Your scored rear housing is re-used, but gets covered with a full face gasket, and mated to the Harden stainless wear plate. The hard part is getting the stock pulley off of the old pump. I have a press and usually cut the shaft off behind the pulley, apply heat to the hub, and press it off. Pressing the old pulley on to the new pump is doable, but somewhat tedious so if you do not have equipment, I'd opt for the Harden model with the pulley. Call Harden to confirm fit on your 6.2 but going by your picture, it looks to be the same. Start at the pump discharge hose and trace the flow, removing each joint and find those rubber bits. No fool proof way to flush them out, and forward flushing will only drive them deeper. High pressure air, and blowing the system components backwards is best. Water works too, but always in reverse direction of the normal flow.   W

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9 hours ago, Wingnut said:

The impeller shaft on the Harden is machined down on the end to accept the stock impeller. Your scored rear housing is re-used, but gets covered with a full face gasket, and mated to the Harden stainless wear plate. The hard part is getting the stock pulley off of the old pump. I have a press and usually cut the shaft off behind the pulley, apply heat to the hub, and press it off. Pressing the old pulley on to the new pump is doable, but somewhat tedious so if you do not have equipment, I'd opt for the Harden model with the pulley. Call Harden to confirm fit on your 6.2 but going by your picture, it looks to be the same. Start at the pump discharge hose and trace the flow, removing each joint and find those rubber bits. No fool proof way to flush them out, and forward flushing will only drive them deeper. High pressure air, and blowing the system components backwards is best. Water works too, but always in reverse direction of the normal flow.   W

Thanks Wingnut.  Ordered the pump with the pulley attached.  Your info gave me the confidence to push this job across he finish line !  Now , this new pump set-up will be easier to service.  Appreciate the tip !

 

BC

 

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14 hours ago, boat crazy said:

Thanks Wingnut.  Ordered the pump with the pulley attached.  Your info gave me the confidence to push this job across he finish line !  Now , this new pump set-up will be easier to service.  Appreciate the tip !

 

BC

 

If your old one had the single point drain option, I'd buy it and weld it, but by the photo it looks like your rear body is a hose manifold only and I have those. Good luck and be sure to lubricate the new impeller with a non-petroleum based lube before assembly as it will need to run dry initially. I use vegetable glycerine, but a simple dish soap/water mixture works too.  W

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 1) Have replacement on hand
2) Release tension on serpentine belt
3) disconnect the two hose from the back of the pump housing...pay attention to the connection order and position.
4) Remove pump assy from block by removing the two screws from the mounting bracket.
5) on the bench...remove the five long screws holding the pump housing to pump and pump bracket...pay attention to their positions
6) Remove impeller, wear plate, replace.
7) To aid in impeller install...soap it up with dishwashing liquid.
8) Reassemble housing...the impeller will self align..so don't worry about it.
9) Reinstall five long bolts and bracket CRITICAL INFO HERE...TIGHTEN EACH BOLT TO A MAXIMUM OF 12 LBS/FT - The housing Cracks easily if it is over tightened
10) Reinstall pump assy to block...tighten bolts to 30 lbs/ft
11) reconnect hoses on back of pump
12) reconnect serpentine belt and tension it.

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On 7/22/2018 at 7:13 AM, Wingnut said:

If your old one had the single point drain option, I'd buy it and weld it, but by the photo it looks like your rear body is a hose manifold only and I have those. Good luck and be sure to lubricate the new impeller with a non-petroleum based lube before assembly as it will need to run dry initially. I use vegetable glycerine, but a simple dish soap/water mixture works too.  W

Just wanted to give an update on this.  Just days after this post I received my new sea water pump from Hardin Marine...nice pump !...

Bigger Bearing, stainless housing w/ removable and replaceable  wear plates.  Even takes the stock impeller. Its truly serviceable now !

Had it back together in about 45min-1hr and then took her for a test run.  Everything worked as expected.

 

After a few trips, I noticed the the rubber boots coming from the exhaust risers that fit into the hard line, "elbow tube" and in turn fit into another rubber boot..I guess these are referred to as 

"bellows" .  Anyway, these were split and starting to spit water from them.  So, I replaced the both boots on the port side; they were both bad and ready to bust at the seams.

As it turned out...you guessed it....the starboard side boots were also swollen and spongy.  Waiting on those parts now. as well as replacing the cracked port side of 6.2L, the Water Distribution Housing.  Bottom of engine assembly on port side

I believe all this may be collateral damage from all the heat generated when my sea water pump failed when on the lake this summer.

I'll be doing a more frequent replacement of my impellers now that the Hardin Marine Pump is serviceable 

 

BC

 

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I know people say the replace every 3 years but I replace mine every year. Cheap insurance. All it take is one ice bag to get wrapped around the out drive for a few seconds and they get brittle.... Yours was a catastrophic failure. Any idea how old it was and what cause the failure?  

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2 hours ago, Phillbo said:

I know people say the replace every 3 years but I replace mine every year. Cheap insurance. All it take is one ice bag to get wrapped around the out drive for a few seconds and they get brittle.... Yours was a catastrophic failure. Any idea how old it was and what cause the failure?  

I think its been at least 3 years.  Just got old and brittle.  As soon as I pulled the out flow hose from the stock pump, big chunks of impeller spilled put...even got little pieces out when backflushing.  Any ideas if the pink winterizing fluid that I flush through the motor before putting her up for the winter is bad for an impeller ?

 

 

BC

 

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Running dry and old age are the killer.... The pink should not hurt it... $20 insurance each year will never leave you in this situation again. 

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9 hours ago, boat crazy said:

I think its been at least 3 years.  Just got old and brittle.  As soon as I pulled the out flow hose from the stock pump, big chunks of impeller spilled put...even got little pieces out when backflushing.  Any ideas if the pink winterizing fluid that I flush through the motor before putting her up for the winter is bad for an impeller ?

 

 

BC

 

Two ways I've seen an impeller get so hard, so fast. First, cheap aftermarket impellers are out there which are not quality EPDM base material and I will only use an OEM piece sourced from a high volume supplier so I know I'm getting a fresh one. Secondly is cheap pink anti-freeze. I use either Prestone marine RV, which now is hard to find, or Sta-Bil marine RV which WalMart has. They are both Propylene Glycol based and will not stiffen the impeller. Mercriuser brand Marine is OK too but expensive. As I've mentioned before, I have installed a pressure gauge on the discharge side of the raw water pump at the power steering cooler fitting so that I can monitor the health of the impeller in real time and mine gets changed every 4 years based on seeing a slight reduction in delivery pressure at idle. Even then, old impeller is soft and at a glance looks like new. I think you are spot on about your non-toxic antifreeze killing your impeller. Some of the dollar store RV brands are even alcohol based, and none of them have inhibitors added to help protect engine cooling system internals.  W

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12 hours ago, boat crazy said:

Just wanted to give an update on this.  Just days after this post I received my new sea water pump from Hardin Marine...nice pump !...

Bigger Bearing, stainless housing w/ removable and replaceable  wear plates.  Even takes the stock impeller. Its truly serviceable now !

Had it back together in about 45min-1hr and then took her for a test run.  Everything worked as expected.

 

After a few trips, I noticed the the rubber boots coming from the exhaust risers that fit into the hard line, "elbow tube" and in turn fit into another rubber boot..I guess these are referred to as 

"bellows" .  Anyway, these were split and starting to spit water from them.  So, I replaced the both boots on the port side; they were both bad and ready to bust at the seams.

As it turned out...you guessed it....the starboard side boots were also swollen and spongy.  Waiting on those parts now. as well as replacing the cracked port side of 6.2L, the Water Distribution Housing.  Bottom of engine assembly on port side

I believe all this may be collateral damage from all the heat generated when my sea water pump failed when on the lake this summer.

I'll be doing a more frequent replacement of my impellers now that the Hardin Marine Pump is serviceable 

 

BC

 

If your rubber exhaust hoses are toasted, then my bet is the exhaust flappers at the entry to the Y-pipe are either burnt, or melted and gone. They are stainless steel swing doors and are jacketed in rubber so they can operate quietly. When they see excessive heat, the rubber at the hinge point melts, and the flapper drop down into the exhaust passage, and can even make it all the way down to the out drive. When you remove the back two 4" hoses you should see them sitting there on both sides.  W

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