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EuroDriver

97 Sunesta 232 electric windlass project

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After 21 years of ownership, decided to build in a drum windlass, and anchor roller

Planning

- 5 kg Nonestar Claw anchor

- hinged anchor roller

- Lone Star Marine GX2 Drum Windlass

https://hammermarine.com/shop/anchor-winches/gx-series/gx2/

 

Cut away for build in of anchor roller

Galazur Anchor roller place.JPG

 

GX2 drum winch fits in this storage cubby

Will need to build a new raised cover from teak planks to clear the 26 cm height of the drum

Galzur winch place.JPG

The base plate of the GX2 unit is the size of the white piece of paper sitting in the well

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4 hours ago, Iggy said:

For that much money, why not buy a windless?

A conventional gypsy windlass was my first idea, but I have been told that you need a good vertical drop to the chain locker, and the chain locker should have a fairly flat bottom.  Not easy to arrange in the Sunesta bow area.

A further advantage of a drum windlass is that I can use a thin rope like Dyneema, and a heavy chain combination

In the places where I am anchoring, I find the weight of the chain is even more important than the size and weight of the anchor !

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6 hours ago, EuroDriver said:

A conventional gypsy windlass was my first idea, but I have been told that you need a good vertical drop to the chain locker, and the chain locker should have a fairly flat bottom.  Not easy to arrange in the Sunesta bow area.

A further advantage of a drum windlass is that I can use a thin rope like Dyneema, and a heavy chain combination

In the places where I am anchoring, I find the weight of the chain is even more important than the size and weight of the anchor !

Outstanding!  A drum might even work better in my case as well because of the bizarre anchor locker storage area on my boat is also a pain for a conventional gipsy windlass which unfortunately I already bought!  Dammit!  I wish I knew about this drum windlass prior to pulling the plug on the horizontal windlass.  Dang!  Definitely kicking myself right now, and I thought I did enough research on exactly what would best work in my case but apparently I didn't since this would've been MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better choice.  @#$%@#!  Never knew there was such a thing.

I'm looking at the specs on the link for the capacity of that specific drum spool which it says: Holds 90m of 8mm Rope + 7m x 8mm chain.  So that's basically about 300ft, yes?

If so, that's just perfect!  Thanks for posting this and please, take pics and document the whole process so we can see how it goes. 

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@EuroDriver, have you started this project yet?  That photo you posted with that piece of paper indicating the location of the base plate, is that the plate for the drum itself?  If so, are you drilling a hole through the front wall of that storage box for the chain and rode to come through from the roller?  What does the roller look like?  I'm trying to picture what the entire setup will look like, specifically the roller and why you're cutting out that much of the flat section in the anchor locker.  The drum itself is the motorized unit and the roller is just to help guide the chain and rode correctly, right?

I'm wondering if I could get just the drum and fit the current motor I bought to it.  Spooling the chain and rode will be so much better in my case also than the conventional gipsy windlass I bought, considering the shape of my anchor locker.  The area for the chain and rode is tight and all angled since it's basically inside the tip of the bow.  I just need to figure out if I can modify parts from both........or just bite the bullet and buy a whole new separate system.  I guess I could sell the other one.

Let us know how you're making out with that.

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7 hours ago, Hatem said:

@EuroDriver, have you started this project yet?  That photo you posted with that piece of paper indicating the location of the base plate, is that the plate for the drum itself?  If so, are you drilling a hole through the front wall of that storage box for the chain and rode to come through from the roller?  What does the roller look like?  I'm trying to picture what the entire setup will look like, specifically the roller and why you're cutting out that much of the flat section in the anchor locker.  The drum itself is the motorized unit and the roller is just to help guide the chain and rode correctly, right?

I'm wondering if I could get just the drum and fit the current motor I bought to it.  Spooling the chain and rode will be so much better in my case also than the conventional gipsy windlass I bought, considering the shape of my anchor locker.  The area for the chain and rode is tight and all angled since it's basically inside the tip of the bow.  I just need to figure out if I can modify parts from both........or just bite the bullet and buy a whole new separate system.  I guess I could sell the other one.

Let us know how you're making out with that.

I have just started the project.  Today the diagonal striped area was cut out.  The white paper is the the size of the base plate for the drum to show that the drum unit base plate will fit.  The base plate will be  bolted to the bottom of the storage box.  I will be cutting a fair sized opening in the front wall of the storage box for the rode and rope to pass out.

Here are some examples of anchor rollers http://www.maxwellmarine.com/gen_accessories.php?bowrollers

I get the impression that the Lone Star drum windlass has the motor / gearbox and drum pretty tightly integrated.

In a week's time is the boat show in Cannes France where I will try to find a 5 kg anchor that could work well

 

 

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3 hours ago, EuroDriver said:

I have just started the project.  Today the diagonal striped area was cut out.  The white paper is the the size of the base plate for the drum to show that the drum unit base plate will fit.  The base plate will be  bolted to the bottom of the storage box.  I will be cutting a fair sized opening in the front wall of the storage box for the rode and rope to pass out.

That's what I figured.  Makes sense.

3 hours ago, EuroDriver said:

Here are some examples of anchor rollers http://www.maxwellmarine.com/gen_accessories.php?bowrollers

So which anchor roller are you using?  If you cut that diagonal stiped area for the roller, is it going to be top mounted like most of those examples in your link or are you coming out of the bow itself?  I'm trying to understand why you're making that specific cut.

3 hours ago, EuroDriver said:

I get the impression that the Lone Star drum windlass has the motor / gearbox and drum pretty tightly integrated.

Yep.  I kinda figured that but was hoping for a miracle LOL.  I'm sure neither the gear, the bolt holes, the threads the nothing lines up or is interchangeable! :lol:

I think it's a no-brainer to go with the drum windlass.  That is just fantastic.  Most applications should be that way,  It just seems so much better to have the entire rode and chain spooled nice and tightly instead of having it drop into a locker where it can get tangled up and jamb on it's way down or whatever.  Even though that probably doesn't happen most of the time, it still seems so much better.  I was going to have a bear of a time making a solid platform to mount the gipsy and have it stable and high enough in that silly and tight locker and be able to have enough room for the motor and the chain and rode to drop in there without bunching up.  It wasn't going to be easy with 300 ft of rope and chain.  Now mounting that drum to the back bulkhead or even a custom platform will be so much easier.

3 hours ago, EuroDriver said:

In a week's time is the boat show in Cannes France where I will try to find a 5 kg anchor that could work well

Vous etes Francais?  C'est manifique!

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13 minutes ago, EuroDriver said:

Here is a anchor roller with a travelling sheave designed for claw type anchors.  I am guessing the sheave moves up and back when the anchor is all the way in and stowed

https://www.osculati.com/en/11005-m-000217/special-roller-for-bruce-and-trefoil®-anchors

A= 380 mm

B= 250 mm

C=187 mm

 

EN_01.343.10-20 dis.jpg

Ok forgive me but why then are you cutting such a wide slot in that striped pattern you drew?  You said that cut was for the anchor roller but that looks to be about 8 inches wide  (16-17cm) while the width of that roller (L) is only about 4cm.  I'm missing something I know. 

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4 minutes ago, Hatem said:

Ok forgive me but why then are you cutting such a wide slot in that striped pattern you drew?  You said that cut was for the anchor roller but that looks to be about 8 inches wide  (16-17cm) while the width of that roller (L) is only about 4cm.  I'm missing something I know. 

The access width is needed for the installation of a new marine plywood  platform to bolt the bow roller to.  The platform will need to be glassed in to the bow

 

Once I have chosen a bow roller the procedure will be

 - cut rectangular opening in the hull for the anchor roller to pass partially through.  Looks like the hole will be 70 mm wide by about 150 mm lengthwise

 - build a platform / floor just below the opening for mounting the roller

 - convert the hatch to side opening

There may well need to be a roller fairlead at the inner end of the anchor roller.  That's the disadvantage of having a drum windlass !

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9 minutes ago, EuroDriver said:

The access width is needed for the installation of a new marine plywood  platform to bolt the bow roller to.  The platform will need to be glassed in to the bow

I see.  Did you cut it yet?  Just my opinion, but that corner looks very solid to me and by cutting into it, you're weakening it a bit even it you glassing plywood into there.  Maybe consider leaving it (if it's not too late) and when you drill the three holes through the top platform for the anchor roller bolts, use a solid 1/4 thick ss plate underneath to tighten the nuts and washers to.  That's how they mount the bow eyes that pull the boat up onto trailers with a backing plate on the inside.  I think that would be solid as a bull and no cutting of anything to keep that fiberglass integrity.

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Cut away already !  Also need to cut away the old anchor tie point

A key parameter of the layout is that I don't want the anchor to protrude further out than the bow rubber stripping  !

The boat is berthed with bow in, I don't want to demolish the anchor during berthing !

 

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12 minutes ago, EuroDriver said:

A key parameter of the layout is that I don't want the anchor to protrude further out than the bow rubber stripping  !

The boat is berthed with bow in, I don't want to demolish the anchor during berthing !

 

But it has to protrude, doesn't it, in order for the anchor to drop?  Almost all of them protrude out at least one foot.

Also so that when you are retrieving the anchor it doesn't slam against the bottom of the bow/hull.

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35 minutes ago, EuroDriver said:

There may well need to be a roller fairlead at the inner end of the anchor roller. 

Ok this is a different story!  I didn't see this part before you edited it.  I was wondering how the rode gets spooled evenly on the drum.  There has to be some type of mechanism that guides it back and forth evenly on the drum.  Is that part of the package? 

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On 9/6/2018 at 11:06 PM, Hatem said:

Ok this is a different story!  I didn't see this part before you edited it.  I was wondering how the rode gets spooled evenly on the drum.  There has to be some type of mechanism that guides it back and forth evenly on the drum.  Is that part of the package? 

I spoke to Lone Star Marine about how the rope and chain pools from side to side.  They said that as long as the fairlead was more than 40 cm away from the drum, the rope should be able to reel from side to side.

 

But as with many things in life, you only find out when you try 

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Here is the anchor and the bow roller I purchased from Osculati in Italy

Trefoil Anchor.jpg

 

The opening in the hull needs to be about 5 cm wide and 16 cm high

 

 

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On 9/3/2018 at 2:12 AM, EuroDriver said:

A conventional gypsy windlass was my first idea, but I have been told that you need a good vertical drop to the chain locker, and the chain locker should have a fairly flat bottom.  Not easy to arrange in the Sunesta bow area.

A further advantage of a drum windlass is that I can use a thin rope like Dyneema, and a heavy chain combination

In the places where I am anchoring, I find the weight of the chain is even more important than the size and weight of the anchor !

So true on the chain.

I would call or go to who ever you want to buy the windless from. You may have the room you need?

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21 hours ago, EuroDriver said:

I spoke to Lone Star Marine about how the rope and chain pools from side to side.  They said that as long as the fairlead was more than 40 cm away from the drum, the rope should be able to reel from side to side. 

That actually makes sense.  I've spooled many an electric cables and even just ropes of all kind in my business and I've found out that with a relatively decent amount of tension of the line (whatever material it may be), and the drum has sides high enough to act as walls, the line will spool evenly on its own from side to side.  It has a tendency to drop next to the tightened line first before trying to sit on top of it.  So I can see what he's saying has quite a bit of truth to it. 

So being standard in measurements here in the US, I'll have to keep in mind that 40 cm is roughly 16 inches which is not bad.  Might just have that kind of room.

21 hours ago, EuroDriver said:

But as with many things in life, you only find out when you try

Indeed.  There's a lot of truth to that as well!

21 hours ago, EuroDriver said:

Here is the anchor and the bow roller I purchased from Osculati in Italy

Trefoil Anchor.jpg

 

The opening in the hull needs to be about 5 cm wide and 16 cm high

Very nice.  So are you boating the amazing waters of Italy or France?  I've sailed Sicily to Greece to Turkey when I was a child and remember quite a bit of it.  Don't remember much about the boat itself but remember those amazing, turquoise waters that seemed to get much brighter in blue from the Tyrrhenian to the Ionian and to the majestic islands of the Aegean.

My setup is almost identical to what this fellow did to his boat.  Only difference is I have a bow ladder in that hatch that I want to keep so I have to go under it and a roller plate that goes on the bow cutout instead of the conventional roller this guy uses right through the opening.  I have no idea what that G-10 plate is he's using, but it looks like very sturdy material, more so than starboard and takes gelcoat very nicely.  Will have to look into it.   

 

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And I also like his idea of powering the windlass off the engine battery instead of the house for the reasons he mentioned.  Can't think of any real negative to doing that.  Even if for some reason it affects the battery which in turn affects the engine, you always have the parallel switch to compensate for any loss of engine battery power.  Unless anyone can think of any other reason not to use the engine battery? 

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4 hours ago, Hatem said:

And I also like his idea of powering the windlass off the engine battery instead of the house for the reasons he mentioned.  Can't think of any real negative to doing that.  Even if for some reason it affects the battery which in turn affects the engine, you always have the parallel switch to compensate for any loss of engine battery power.  Unless anyone can think of any other reason not to use the engine battery? 

Great video !  Thanks. 

G10 material looks great, will definitely try to get some

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Typically the engine will be running and charging the battery when the windlass is in use so no concerns there.

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5 hours ago, Phillbo said:

Typically the engine will be running and charging the battery when the windlass is in use so no concerns there.

So very true. Also the windless should be fused. But, i would connect it to the house batteries.

Two reasons, most house banks are more than one battery. Multi battery setup will give you more available amps and less of a load on one battery. Also, for safety if for what ever reason it brings down your battery. Better the house than your starting battery to get you home. If you have some sort of short, your not going to combine them. A bit of a stretch, but your better off.

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12 hours ago, Iggy said:

Two reasons, most house banks are more than one battery. Multi battery setup will give you more available amps and less of a load on one battery. Also, for safety if for what ever reason it brings down your battery. Better the house than your starting battery to get you home. If you have some sort of short, your not going to combine them. A bit of a stretch, but your better off.

I think he picked the engine battery simply because on that particular boat, there's only one house battery, so it would probably be better to power it off of the engine battery but for me, I have 2 GP31 dual use 1000 cranks for house batteries which will also be powered by the engine's generator.  I think I'll probably end up hooking mine on the house but not sure yet.  Gonna have to give it some more thought.

@Curt , do you know which battery Chaparral hooked up your windlass on in the factory?  Anyone else, too?  Would be good to know if there is an average that supports one way more than the other. 

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