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Windless anchor for a 276 ssx

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On 11/7/2018 at 8:19 AM, Curt said:

Is it chrome plated or polished? Seems like a dumb question, but many are platted because stainless is a very grainy material.

I don't believe in dumb questions, Curtzation.  That's actually a great question and made me double back for a second.  The unfinished backside looks like stainless steel to me, but chrome-plated is certainly a huge possibility.  Let me ask you this - if it's chrome-plated, would they basically dip it to get the chrome plating?  I believe that is the plating process, right?  If that's the case, then it probably would have chrome on all surfaces since they would have to dip the whole thing in all those sollutions.  But this thing has the polished-or-chrome finish on only the fronts and exposed part including the 1/8" edge of the entire plate.  It's a clear, distinct line between the polished surfaces and the finished ones.  All backside surfaces are bare and looks like SS to me.  Unless they use a selective electrolysis system for the certain surfaces they want to chrome and when they dip it, only those surfaces become plated in chrome?  Is that a viable procedure that exists?  I'm not sure, just throwing it out there and asking because that might answer the question.  If that was the case, it would be pretty amazing because even the outside edge of the whole plate is polished surface and that's only 1/8".

On 11/7/2018 at 8:19 AM, Curt said:

No memory per se, but stainless is harder than h-e-double hockey sticks and is very difficult to weld and tends to distort.

So you're the first to say no memory which is interesting but the distorting is something I've definitely heard about stainless steel.  They'll have to clamp it carefully when they reweld it or something to that effect.

On 11/7/2018 at 8:19 AM, Curt said:

At the end of the day, if you want to use the existing part, an oxy-acetylene torch, a tempering oven, a heavy hammer, wood timber base and skilled hand will do the trick.

I figured I would go as far as I felt comfortable with my limited skills and knowledge of metal fabrication and especially using heat since I certainly don't want to ruin it.  That was an expensive (and actually a rather difficult item to get TBH) and the last thing I want is to ruin it.

On 11/7/2018 at 8:19 AM, Curt said:

Two things to think about. Call the manufacturer and get the grade of steel used. This will help the shop doing the work a lot. Second, perhaps they’ll make you a custom, using the template, and also take this one back provided you give them some extra $.

I got it from Joe @ Cecile Marine, Curtzation.  And to be perfectly honest with you, this was back in late 2015, I believe and because it was a Chaparral 277ssx item, it wasn't easy to get from him for some reason.  Not sure why, I can't seem to remember what the difficulty was exactly but I had to convince the good lad.  So you can imagine what it would be like attempting to find out whomever does these customized parts for Chaparral.  Not even sure if they have their own, in-house metal shop or they sub-contract all the SS out to a local or out of state metal shop, no clue.  And considering all that, I don't think it's even worth the trouble finding out.  I just need the right person to do it and I've gotten an excellent recommendation/referral from another forum for a local shop.

http://www.vikingwelding.com/

It'll get done, but you've certainly thrown a wrench at me with this chrome plating possibility....jerk.  :lol:

On 11/7/2018 at 8:19 AM, Curt said:

They are equipped to do this. If that doesn’t work, PM me and I’ll provide a few references for shops that do great stainless work. Alternatively, and fortunately you’re in the Boston area, go to a few stainless prop repair shops - they’ll have the equipment and skill for this. Keep in mind, stainless is a material many general metal shops can’t do (and readily admit) and/or some think they can do, but in the end can’t (part looks terrible, weld is awful, etc.; remember, the weld must bond the pieces together structurally and must also look great - this is an appearance part). Can’t wait to see this finished. It looks great, and the work you’ve done is fantastic. Also, can’t wait to see the bow thruster.

Thanks man, and thank you for the offer to help, ma bro.  Much much much appreciated.  I got another referral for another metal shop that's even closer to me than the one in the link I posted.  Both are relatively local to me so hopefully one of them will pan out.  I'll be reaching out to them today or tomorrow and keep yous all posted.  If it's chrome-plated you'll have to pm me your address so I can send you a pizza from Tony's pizza and sub shop lol.  But you're definitely right about the stainless steel welding; I've watched several videos on it and it's most certainly a skilled operation which takes a lot of know-how on the appropriate procedures.  Not just technique, but welding temperatures and all the side effects.

BTW, if it is indeed chrome-plated, that will throw a huuugeah monkey wrench at my face!  Simply put, that would suck royally!  Now it would be a totally different operation and much more complicated since despite the polishing of stainless steel being very labor-intensive, it would think it's still much quicker and especially simpler, easier and less complicated than chrome plating.  At least in this case of reworking an existing finished piece.

On 11/7/2018 at 9:29 AM, cyclops2 said:

After the anchor & bow thruster ?  :wub:

 

Install a bow thruster in the stern. A friends new old wooden Mahogany 33' runabout has a stern thruster. SO SWEET in winds. 1st time every time. It is so UN event full to dock a normally undersized rudder boat. The rudder is 7 X 7" . A total useless joke in any wind and current.

It's even worst on this 29ft boat with a single sterndrive.  Not ashamed to admit I have a super hard time backing up this boat into our slip.  The bow is almost uncontrollable.  I lose it almost every single time there's the slightest wind or current which is why I always pull in forward.  I certainly wouldn't go through it just for the fun of it.  It's something I could definitely use to help docking in tight spots so it will be worth it IMO.  Even the fellow two slips down from us with a 35' Cruisers and twin Mercs uses his BT like crazy backing into his slip.  He works both throttles and the bow thruster all together to get that thing backed in.  It's pretty wild watching him do that every time and I can see how it helps him greatly.  Doing it myself will help save some money plus I can do the accessing and be careful about it since this is much more difficult than a boat with a cabin where access to the lower bow area is super easy under the forward berth.  This is tighter than a bull's $^& in fly season, Clops. :haha-7383:   

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2 hours ago, Hatem said:

But this thing has the polished-or-chrome finish on only the fronts and exposed part including the 1/8" edge of the entire plate. 

Good news, sounds like it's polished. While you can plate only certain surfaces, it's harder and more costly. Given the typical save $0.05 approach most builders live by, if this thing was plated, it'd be plated on all sides - easier and cheaper.

2 hours ago, Hatem said:

I just need the right person to do it and I've gotten an excellent recommendation/referral from another forum for a local shop.

Talk with Viking, but they look to have a wonderful aluminum competency.  Stainless is different.

2 hours ago, Hatem said:

And considering all that, I don't think it's even worth the trouble finding out. 

Agree. But, a suggestion that is more of a helpful requirement. Make sure the shop has an "alloy gun" so they can determine what type of stainless this thing is made from. Knowing the type and grade is very important to a successful weld. The rod and filler must be compatible or there will be problems. If they don't have one, no biggie, drive over to any decent size scrap dealer/processor and sweet talk the counter person into testing it for you. Takes less than a minute. If you bring that pizza, I'm sure they'll help.

2 hours ago, Hatem said:

They'll have to clamp it carefully when they reweld it or something to that effect.

 

2 hours ago, Hatem said:

... and especially using heat since I certainly don't want to ruin it.  That was an expensive (and actually a rather difficult item to get TBH) and the last thing I want is to ruin it.

On both of these points, don't worry or let it get you down. It's going to distort some and nothing can be done about that. But, and this is good, any and all distortion will be removed by heat, that largish hammer and skilled hand. Once polished, again, you'll be the only one, other than those on this board following this discussion, aware of what was done and the fact it distorted at all. The key here, take the time to create that template. Then, take that template and transfer it to a large cross section hard wood timber. Make a base form that can be hammered against (think of it as a wood anvil). When you've got the contour just how you want it, burn the surface some to harden it and hammer it some to compress things (yes, leave some stock and "finish contour" it via hammering, followed by burning). Then take this baby, along with that plate, to the shop of your choice. They'll love you. They'll love the fact you're into it. They'll love that you're helpful. And, they'll love you more by paying cash with cash in hand. At any rate, ignoring the flowery bromance that is sure to blossom, they'll use it to hammer that beauty into shape using this "one-time" base. Easy peasy. You got this. No worries. 

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21 hours ago, Curt said:

Good news, sounds like it's polished. While you can plate only certain surfaces, it's harder and more costly. Given the typical save $0.05 approach most builders live by, if this thing was plated, it'd be plated on all sides - easier and cheaper.

That's what I thought.  Although my buddy who runs a metal shop took a look at it yesterday and was almost convinced that it is chrome plated loool.  I told him the same thing, why would they only do the surface and that tiny edge all the way around and not the backside of the plate.  Electrolysis and dipping and all that it's much harder to only do one side of something like this.  Maybe a thru-hull cap or a pipe ring or a car bumper since those surfaces are shaped a bit less complicated.  He said that judging by the welds, they look filled in as opposed to grinded down and polished and in some other areas, the beading is untouched after welding and so he said how on earth would they polish tiny, irregular and constant variations in heights of a welded bead like those?  That does make sense since those beads are tiny, 1/8" diameter at the max.  He said how the heII would they get in there to polish those and with what?  He has a point, and his shop deals with a lot of fabrication but they send everything out to be either chromed or polished and he said if they did something like this, they would've knocked down all those beads to almost a smooth surface to make it easier to polish.  So interesting stuff going on here.

We put it on his press and tried flattening it a little and got a lot out of it.  It's actually much closer now I was surprised.  Just not 100% so I'm going to another marine metal fabricating shop today and see what they say.  Turns out Viking is a bit too far (it's in NH) and I'm sure there's closer places that can take care of this.

21 hours ago, Curt said:

On both of these points, don't worry or let it get you down. It's going to distort some and nothing can be done about that. But, and this is good, any and all distortion will be removed by heat, that largish hammer and skilled hand. Once polished, again, you'll be the only one, other than those on this board following this discussion, aware of what was done and the fact it distorted at all. The key here, take the time to create that template. Then, take that template and transfer it to a large cross section hard wood timber. Make a base form that can be hammered against (think of it as a wood anvil). When you've got the contour just how you want it, burn the surface some to harden it and hammer it some to compress things (yes, leave some stock and "finish contour" it via hammering, followed by burning). Then take this baby, along with that plate, to the shop of your choice. They'll love you. They'll love the fact you're into it. They'll love that you're helpful. And, they'll love you more by paying cash with cash in hand. At any rate, ignoring the flowery bromance that is sure to blossom, they'll use it to hammer that beauty into shape using this "one-time" base. Easy peasy. You got this. No worries. 

Good stuff. Yeah, I'm not worried at all, bro.  I know it'll get done.  :)  It's already looking really good just by the little bit of pressing we did to it yesterday.  

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59 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

Not many passengers will ever see those welds.    :)

For sure.  So after a couple of presses, check out the fit.  Much better and now it's only about 1/4" all the way around and that can actually be taken care of if I scrape a little more of the surface fiberglass around the outside edge of the cutout.  If I take off that 1/4" all along the edge and slowly come up to the surface about an inch away, it'll sit almost perfectly on the hull.

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Looks real good. Not sure it’s worth the effort to bend further because the guide will have to come off and be rewelded.

If plated, with those bends on the press, the chrome would likely have cracked, chipped or flaked. Chrome is very rigid, and doesn’t “bend” well. The bead sure is bad, wow, but does look plated to me. Not there, so can’t be certain.

FYI. You’d be surprised how well these things polish out, and it’s possible they started with a mill polished plate (single side). A variety of flapper wheels, and even a vibratory media tank do wonders. But, I don’t think this latter method was used because all surfaces would be the same.

If you work the hull, and use a rubber gasket/liberal amount of 5200, she’ll look good and be water tight. Looks like the best next step. 

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1 hour ago, Curt said:

Looks real good. Not sure it’s worth the effort to bend further because the guide will have to come off and be rewelded.

If plated, with those bends on the press, the chrome would likely have cracked, chipped or flaked. Chrome is very rigid, and doesn’t “bend” well. The bead sure is bad, wow, but does look plated to me. Not there, so can’t be certain.

FYI. You’d be surprised how well these things polish out, and it’s possible they started with a mill polished plate (single side). A variety of flapper wheels, and even a vibratory media tank do wonders. But, I don’t think this latter method was used because all surfaces would be the same.

If you work the hull, and use a rubber gasket/liberal amount of 5200, she’ll look good and be water tight. Looks like the best next step. 

Once again, you are spot on, Curtzation.  :)  Everything you just said is exactly what this guy just told me.  He said it's not worth grinding out all that welding and especially at the top round where the plate is welded to that inside flange right at the corner of the 2 pieces and grinding flush and smooth.  Plus he said there's a huge possibility that the grinding will score other parts if the surface and then it's more work to repair.  He said these things are cut, welded and grinded in the rough and then polished, in that order and now we're going in the opposite direction which is essentially counter productive to a good, finish result.  Makes a lot of sense, not to mention the worthiness of the effort & cost.

He also said it is polished stainless and not chromed, so that's good.

Totally agree with you, now the next step is work the hull opening a little and get her sitting almost perfectly.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  It would be nice if they made a black 5200.  I think that would be the best thing to close up any little spaces that I end up with.

Plus I need to polish it a little from all the work and handling etc.  Need to find the right polishing compound and also use it on other parts of the boat I need to clean up.

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Suggest Timesaver's lapping compound. https://www.ws2coating.com/timesaverlappingcompounds/.   

The Yellow 60N is a good start. Then go to 80N or even 100N. Green works very good as well, but is a little more aggressive. Either way, mix with a little light oil and use a high speed drill and flapper wheel. For the crevices and/or more intricate areas, a Dremel and flapper wheel. After, clean with an aerosol window cleaner, kerosene or MEK, then apply and buff with a little auto wax (serves as a good protectant/sealer). The compound breaks down as you go, so you'll need to reload the wheel from time to time. I have tins of both, and can send some of each in two small plastic containers if you'd prefer not to order.

Nearly any standard home silver or stainless polish works pretty good also. And, I've used SoftScrub from time to time as well.

Like with any compound though, suggest testing a very small area first to make sure it doesn't alter the brilliance of the surface.

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20 hours ago, Curt said:

5200 is available in black. I’ll send a rec. on a suitable compound separately. 

Yeah I found it.  Crazy how expensive that crap is.

19 hours ago, Curt said:

Suggest Timesaver's lapping compound. https://www.ws2coating.com/timesaverlappingcompounds/.   

The Yellow 60N is a good start. Then go to 80N or even 100N. Green works very good as well, but is a little more aggressive. Either way, mix with a little light oil and use a high speed drill and flapper wheel. For the crevices and/or more intricate areas, a Dremel and flapper wheel. After, clean with an aerosol window cleaner, kerosene or MEK, then apply and buff with a little auto wax (serves as a good protectant/sealer). The compound breaks down as you go, so you'll need to reload the wheel from time to time. I have tins of both, and can send some of each in two small plastic containers if you'd prefer not to order.

Nearly any standard home silver or stainless polish works pretty good also. And, I've used SoftScrub from time to time as well.

Like with any compound though, suggest testing a very small area first to make sure it doesn't alter the brilliance of the surface.

Thanks, Curt.  I'm reading through the website and wondering is the yellow 60N more aggressive than something like Flitz?  I used that on it last night and it did an amazing job.  Just a very few of the slightly deeper scratches are still visible but you really have to look for them to see them, so I'm not too concerned about them but it would be good to know, anyway.  Might run into something else that needs a harder level compound.  Thanks for the offer, BTW.  Might take you up on that in return for an exchange favor down the road.

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14 minutes ago, Hatem said:

Yeah I found it.  Crazy how expensive that crap is.

Thanks, Curt.  I'm reading through the website and wondering is the yellow 60N more aggressive than something like Flitz?  I used that on it last night and it did an amazing job.  Just a very few of the slightly deeper scratches are still visible but you really have to look for them to see them, so I'm not too concerned about them but it would be good to know, anyway.  Might run into something else that needs a harder level compound.  Thanks for the offer, BTW.  Might take you up on that in return for an exchange favor down the road.

Fine automotive wet or dry sand paper, using it wet with a little soapy water. Start with 600 grit, then 1500, then 2000, and so on, then finish with your polishing compound.  Denny.

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21 minutes ago, Denny said:

Fine automotive wet or dry sand paper, using it wet with a little soapy water. Start with 600 grit, then 1500, then 2000, and so on, then finish with your polishing compound.  Denny.

I thought about going that route, Denny, except I really didn't have enough damage -- so to speak -- to warrant a more aggressive polishing of this thing TBH.  I was mostly looking at handprints and dirt and grime and very minor scuff marks.  The two little scratches are barely noticeable and to sand that whole thing with all its corners and bends and inside spaces etc. was probably a bit unnecessary, so I used the Flitz which worked incredibly well.  

But what you said reminds me of this video I watched a few weeks ago.  This guy takes a raw sheet of stainless steel and basically does what you described to get a mirror finish, except he starts with 220 grit and works his way to 5000 grit while adding little amounts of alumicut on the sanding discs.  Then he polishes with Gords aluminum polish on fine steel wool.  Despite doing the final polishing step too quick and in the sun where it was too hot and the polish caked up on him, it came out so shiny it actually looks like a piece of mirror and not stainless steel.  This technique is probably the best I've seen as far as results are concerned.  It's not even that tedious when you really think about it.  Starting with 600 and going to 1500 like you said would probably be even easier for things that are already polished and need a good reworking before polishing.

 

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If the sandpaper route is desired, unless attempting to get the bigger gouges out, start at 2000 and move up because the part is already polished. Starting lower will matte/dull the surface and more work will be needed to bring the brilliance back. Likewise, if a compound is used, an oil wetted cotton cloth or copper wool is preferred. Basically, apply with something softer than the stainless otherwise it will mar the surface.

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1 hour ago, Curt said:

If the sandpaper route is desired, unless attempting to get the bigger gouges out, start at 2000 and move up because the part is already polished. Starting lower will matte/dull the surface and more work will be needed to bring the brilliance back. Likewise, if a compound is used, an oil wetted cotton cloth or copper wool is preferred. Basically, apply with something softer than the stainless otherwise it will mar the surface.

Yep, that might be what I'll do when I get to the point prior to bolting it into the bow.  For now, I've put working on the roller plate aside and jumped on getting the gipsy and motor platform built and I discovered I made a slight error in my calculations for where the end of the anchor leg ends up inside the locker when it's pulled all the way in.  I thought it ended at the edge of the ladder platform but it goes beyond that by about 4".  With the gipsy on the platform and the platform up against the rear bulkhead, I only have 4" of space between the gipsy and the end of the anchor leg.  Kinda tight.

@Denny, are you using the swivel pin on your anchor or are you tying the chain right to the anchor?  If I use the swivel pin, it's about 3" long which brings it really close to the gipsy.  I'll only have 1"+/- to spare.  I think that will be ok but I do wish I had a bit more room just in case there's some stretching in the line or whatever may be the case.  Talk about tighter than a bull's $^& in fly season, ooof.  I really don't like how tight things are in that locker, which keeps pushing me more towards the drum windlass.   

Plus I had to take off the forward backseat cushion of the forward bowseat to see if I can bolt the platform straight through the back.  So I know how those come out now, I'll take some pics and post them in case anyone was curious or needs to take them off.  

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Terrific D I Y Hatem.

Looking forward to your stern thruster  D I Y.

Each year my hand eye is worse in wind conditions.  A stern thruster is a must or I sell the 186 again.

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9 hours ago, Hatem said:

I thought about going that route, Denny, except I really didn't have enough damage -- so to speak -- to warrant a more aggressive polishing of this thing TBH.  I was mostly looking at handprints and dirt and grime and very minor scuff marks.  The two little scratches are barely noticeable and to sand that whole thing with all its corners and bends and inside spaces etc. was probably a bit unnecessary, so I used the Flitz which worked incredibly well.  

But what you said reminds me of this video I watched a few weeks ago.  This guy takes a raw sheet of stainless steel and basically does what you described to get a mirror finish, except he starts with 220 grit and works his way to 5000 grit while adding little amounts of alumicut on the sanding discs.  Then he polishes with Gords aluminum polish on fine steel wool.  Despite doing the final polishing step too quick and in the sun where it was too hot and the polish caked up on him, it came out so shiny it actually looks like a piece of mirror and not stainless steel.  This technique is probably the best I've seen as far as results are concerned.  It's not even that tedious when you really think about it.  Starting with 600 and going to 1500 like you said would probably be even easier for things that are already polished and need a good reworking before polishing.

 

You don't sand the whole thing, only the scratches.

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7 hours ago, Hatem said:

Yep, that might be what I'll do when I get to the point prior to bolting it into the bow.  For now, I've put working on the roller plate aside and jumped on getting the gipsy and motor platform built and I discovered I made a slight error in my calculations for where the end of the anchor leg ends up inside the locker when it's pulled all the way in.  I thought it ended at the edge of the ladder platform but it goes beyond that by about 4".  With the gipsy on the platform and the platform up against the rear bulkhead, I only have 4" of space between the gipsy and the end of the anchor leg.  Kinda tight.

@Denny, are you using the swivel pin on your anchor or are you tying the chain right to the anchor?  If I use the swivel pin, it's about 3" long which brings it really close to the gipsy.  I'll only have 1"+/- to spare.  I think that will be ok but I do wish I had a bit more room just in case there's some stretching in the line or whatever may be the case.  Talk about tighter than a bull's $^& in fly season, ooof.  I really don't like how tight things are in that locker, which keeps pushing me more towards the drum windlass.   

Plus I had to take off the forward backseat cushion of the forward bowseat to see if I can bolt the platform straight through the back.  So I know how those come out now, I'll take some pics and post them in case anyone was curious or needs to take them off.  

Yes, I am using the swivel, it will help to keep the anchor line from twisting.

If you look, you will see that I am very close to the gypsy. As long as you are not in the gear, I think that you will be alright.

I will get you another photo with a better view, so you will be able to compare.

IMG-5654.jpg

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16 hours ago, cyclops2 said:

Terrific D I Y Hatem.

Looking forward to your stern thruster  D I Y.

Each year my hand eye is worse in wind conditions.  A stern thruster is a must or I sell the 186 again.

Bow thruster, Clops.  Not a stern.  Stern would actually be much easier to do because of the space and access in the bilge.  The bow is a nightmare but that's where I need it.

13 hours ago, Denny said:

Yes, I am using the swivel, it will help to keep the anchor line from twisting.

If you look, you will see that I am very close to the gypsy. As long as you are not in the gear, I think that you will be alright.

I will get you another photo with a better view, so you will be able to compare.

IMG-5654.jpg

That is close.  Almost as close as the way mine is coming out.  Well, that's good anyway.  And that swivel of yours is different and seems larger than the one I have. 

This one is only 3" long and it's straight and each side spins at the middle connection.

964400-Anchorlift-Swivels-nl.jpg

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12 hours ago, Hatem said:

Bow thruster, Clops.  Not a stern.  Stern would actually be much easier to do because of the space and access in the bilge.  The bow is a nightmare but that's where I need it.

That is close.  Almost as close as the way mine is coming out.  Well, that's good anyway.  And that swivel of yours is different and seems larger than the one I have. 

This one is only 3" long and it's straight and each side spins at the middle connection.

964400-Anchorlift-Swivels-nl.jpg

My swivel is 3" the curved piece is the turner to make the anchor set seat properly.

Sorry for the water spots, haven't started the detailing yet.  Denny.

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IMG-9093.jpg

 

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I find if I get enough splash  / rain drops.   The spots disappear. 

WOT  is good on every outing.  :wub:

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17 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

I find if I get enough splash  / rain drops.   The spots disappear. 

WOT  is good on every outing.  :wub:

:boating::)

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16 hours ago, Denny said:

My swivel is 3" the curved piece is the turner to make the anchor set seat properly.

I didn't see the swivel and just assumed you were using the turner as the swivel.  That's interesting.  Either way, the distance between the end of the anchor leg and the gipsy is about the same as what you have and it's good to see that it's ok because there really isn't any other choice.  Thanks, Denny.  Great pics.

16 hours ago, Denny said:

Sorry for the water spots, haven't started the detailing yet.  Denny.

Unacceptable!  Don't let it happen again.  :D 

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