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Time for Oil Change

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Even though reading that entire post was almost as painful as my last entire semester Trigonometry class in college, and I never thought it possible to get a headache, go cross-eyed and my ADD reach its peak all at the same time lol, it was still a good read. 

A couple of things I would note from the information in that post is that the draining and filling of the outdrive oil is different in Volvos than what was mentioned, which was strictly for Mercs since Volvos (at least the DPS-A and most DP models that I know of) don't have a remote reservoir for the oil and is filled directly into the outdrive and you obviously have to remove the top cap AND the side vent cap and of course, the bottom drain plug to drain the oil.  Once drained, you attach the pump hose from the oil quart to the bottom drain plug and fill, leaving the side cap open for air to escape and as you fill the oil through the bottom drain, it fills up until it comes out of the side vent and automatically pushes any trapped air right out that side vent.  Once the oil reaches that vent and begins to overflow, that's when you know it's full to the correct amount and no air and no topping off after. 

We've also learned that Mobil-1 is not marine-certified and lacks the adequate emulsifiers in marine-specific oils which essentially means it's not necessarily ideal for boats spending all summer seasons in the slip.  It sounds like a good synthetic to use in your car, or if you ONLY trailer your boat when you use it but not for boats that sit in a slip with high, constant surrounding moisture content.  Not to mention should any water penetrate the engine block due to some failure, it won't be as helpful as marine-rated oils.  Is that fair to say?

We've also learned the concept of the appearance of the demon that goes by Aciddemonoil.  Given that the oil in marine engines tends to absorb moisture after a whole season in a slip and on the water, that moisture is now grub for Aciddemonoil who ends up eating the inside coatings of the engine and rods.  Which then means that while Mobil-1 has the correct arrangement of molecule sizes (the medium ones) more so than many of the other oils for those high temperatures associated with marine engines and will lube and protect better within that spectrum, I suppose that would be a big consideration as to whether that outweighs its lack of emulsifiers.  

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For those of us using Mobil 1 for decades, and in my case being responsible for it's blending and packaging since the early 90's, you need to relax and understand that formulation and certification have little effect on each other. Mobil 1 15w-50 was accepted by Volvo in Europe as it surpassed all of the OEM's criteria including but not limited to lubricity, emulsibility, anti-corrosion, and viscosity index. Minimum base stock number was also exceeded by a large percentage and at that time Mobil had enough reserve manufacturing capacity that going after that very limited market made sense for us. ISO standards are a bit different than API, but tend to be more stringent as they include both end product composition and component manufacturing/sourcing audit trail. Their regiment more mirrors what the NRC requires for lubes in the US. Bottom line, Mobil 1 meets all the criteria for "Marine Certification" and performed all the magic right off the shelf without the need for specialized additive packages and the expense of a blend to order formulation. Pull it out of the bulk Mobil 1 tank, slap it in a Volvo bottle and be happy.

In the US market, when asked to supply the marine industry, Mobil had just signed their contract with WalMart to fill and supply 5 quart containers, and at the same time the major auto makers wanted additional product offerings like 0w-20 and extended interval oils. The market volume exploded and surpassed the ability of our single base stock manufacturing facility. Actually the best advertising campaign Mobil ever experienced was when Castrol marketed their Syn-Tec as it drove so many consumers toward synthetics. We were actually making their basestocks and blending many of their products at that time at our facility in Bayone New Jersey.  Bottom line we declined to bid in the US market for Marine Lubes as we were doing Ingersol/Rand, Caterpillar Tractor, Honda, Goodwrench, Ford, Toyoda, Trac Auto, and a bunch more I can't remember. Such a limited volume market as compared to supplying something like Chevrolet Tonawanda, New York as their orders went out in tank cars, not bottles.

At that time, Volvo went with a domestic straight weight 30w synthetic, and unfortunately suffered some failures as detailed below. Point to all this is just because a particular oil does not carry a current marine certification does not mean it does not meet or exceed a builders minimum standards. In the case of Mobil 1 15w-50 it exceeds their requirements but as Mobil was not in a position to make Volvo's domestic price point in their packaging there was no market driver that justified going through the expense of getting their offering certified as that is a lengthily and costly process and with the advent of catalytic convertor on marine engines, a zinc free formulation was in the offing anyway.

As stated before, Marine OEM's do not blend their own oils, nor do they provide formulations to their contract compounders. They provide a performance specification and require the blender to provide documentation that shows that their product performs as advertised. At times that can be more trouble than it's worth. Other times, an oil is provided that meets the criteria, yet once placed into the field is found to have an unanticipated end result which was the case with Volvo 30w synthetic. I have a bit more than a casual interest in Mobil 1 as I was involved with it's blending and packaging and after 30 years have enough real world experience that I feel I can brag about it's performance in marine engines and I honestly believe that it remains a better choice for a non-catalyst recreational marine engine. It was Volvo's marine certified oil of choice in Europe until Volvo found a cheaper alternative. That decision had disastrous results in the US market.

Don't Use Volvo SAE-30w Synthetic Oil???????

            I've followed our group's comments over the past weeks and have had PM's from several of you and one common theme seems to prevail. We are all looking for the quick black or white answer to what appears to be a very complex issue. I suggest that we try not to generalize too quickly and look at the individual facts based on the little information available to us.

            A limited number of failures have occurred in Volvo 8.1's whereas the cam followers were flat spotted and the closing ramp of the cam profile showed evidence of the roller lifter sliding down the back side of the lobe, rather than rolling as it is designed to do. There was no evidence that this had occurred prior to the widespread usage of the Volvo SAE-30 synthetic oil and did not happen with similar Merc offerings.

            Merc and Volvo all use the same base engine, however there are subtle differences in the 8.1's. Volvo's approach to increasing output is to utilize a cam shaft with a little less gross valve lift and a slightly higher valve spring pressure. They achieve their power gains by opening the valves sooner and more aggressively, and waiting until the last possible moment before slamming it closed. Seems like the cam followers are just having a bit of trouble following the cam, even with the increased spring pressure.

            Merc uses more total gross valve lift (bigger cam) and opens the valves more gradually, opens them a tad more, then gently closes the valves. They get away with less spring pressure but idle quality suffers a bit.

            By putting conventional oil in an 8.1 Volvo, you increase parasitic drag somewhat, and the increase in friction evidently sets up a wear pattern during break-in that keeps the valve lifter trunion rotation intact. The real problem IMHO lies in a too aggressive cam profile, without the addition of adequately stiff valve springs to complement the 8.1's heavy intake valves.

            Let's face it, if you had a choice of changing an oil specification, or changing out cams and intake valve springs as part of a mass recall, what would you do. Personally I don't think the Volvo SAE-30 will be around for too long as their contract supplier dropped it from their own line-up some time ago. As I said in the past, these oils are typically a re-brand of an existing offering produced by one of the majors.

            If you have a Volvo 8.1, I'd either use the Volvo Synthetic as offered by their overseas distributors (actually Mobil-1 15w-50), or I'd use the new Merc full synthetic. (Blasphemy) I'm going for the Mobil-1 15w-50 in my 496 HO and the remainder of our "fleet".

            I think it is only a matter of time that documented Volvo owners get a notification about the use of Volvo SAE-30. A lubrication related failure is rare, but per this example there can be other factors involved.

 

 

     

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On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:37 AM, Hatem said:

Don't you know that we MUST turn a mole into a mountain around here? lol.  If you don't change the oil before you put it away for the winter, you will regret it as it turns into ACIDEMONOIL........who will proceed to possess your engine from within.....Buuuuhaahahahahahaaaaaaa!

qvoYHfU.jpg

Your engine's life will be oooovvvveeerrrrr and your boat will be possessed by Acidemonoil foreeeever as he begins to consume your engine block with his evilness and melt it away!! 

The only way to cast the evil Aciddemonoil out of your engine block is to summon the Vatican garage mechanics and fly them over from Italy to perform an acid cleansing exorcism of your entire boat!  Since Acidemonoil doesn't only possess and consume the engine, he flows through the bilge and into your boat's soul and also possesses the power steering fluid all the way to the steering wheel and eventually into you. 

Peace of mind and sleep well at night gods are not to be reckoned with.

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On 10/15/2018 at 8:36 AM, Hatem said:

This is pretty important and some people don't know about this and some who do will downplay it.  AND, in the case of the OP, it doesn't sound like he knows what the original oil was that's in the boat so he might not have any choice but to do with the synthetic, given the scenario.

Unless you know exactly what oil was put in before (or what it currently has), then I would go with a synthetic motor oil because of that principle.  If you have mineral oil in the engine, then you can put mineral oil in again.  But one you have put synthetic oil in the engine, you should NOT go back to mineral oil and since you're asking what oil to put use, I can only assume you don't know what's already in there, so go with a synthetic just to be safe.  Besides, I think most would agree that synthetic oil is simply better anyway.  And I would stick with VP products because of the OEM concept.  I always abide by that as much as possible but that's just me.

I want to thank everyone's helpful information.  I'm off to Walmart for the Mobil 1 synthetic 15w 50.  :) 

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On 10/16/2018 at 5:37 AM, Hatem said:

Don't you know that we MUST turn a mole into a mountain around here? lol.  If you don't change the oil before you put it away for the winter, you will regret it as it turns into ACIDEMONOIL........who will proceed to possess your engine from within.....Buuuuhaahahahahahaaaaaaa!

qvoYHfU.jpg

Your engine's life will be oooovvvveeerrrrr and your boat will be possessed by Acidemonoil foreeeever as he begins to consume your engine block with his evilness and melt it away!! 

The only way to cast the evil Aciddemonoil out of your engine block is to summon the Vatican garage mechanics and fly them over from Italy to perform an acid cleansing exorcism of your entire boat!  Since Acidemonoil doesn't only possess and consume the engine, he flows through the bilge and into your boat's soul and also possesses the power steering fluid all the way to the steering wheel and eventually into you. 

WoW....Seriously dude?????  Are you some kind of child?

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6 hours ago, Phillbo said:

WoW....Seriously dude?????  Are you some kind of child?

Must be tough going through life being so slow on the uptake, ey? 

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2 hours ago, Hatem said:

Must be tough going through life being so slow on the uptake, ey? 

Yep?

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1 hour ago, Iggy said:

Yep?

lol.  Ok, fair enough since your approach wasn't rude and confrontational like the other one and knowing you a little bit, I can see how that humor in that post wasn't picked up.  If you read through the sequence of posts, you'd probably see that it was simply a dark, humorous expounding to @soldier4402's comment regarding many who think that if you leave your used engine oil in for the winter, your engine block will get eaten away by the acid that develops as a result of accumulated moisture mixing with the sitting oil.  And that concept -- whether true or not -- seems to be quite an over-exaggeration, hence, "Acid-demon-oil".  Simply a goof on the idea that you must change your oil every year otherwise your engine is doomed. 

And if you notice soldier's clever reply to it, he got it and played along nicely unlike the stupid, idiotic, looking for a fight comment a few posts above.  Typical of the FMC (Fellowship of the Miserable Clownship). :lol: 

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20 hours ago, Hatem said:

lol.  Ok, fair enough since your approach wasn't rude and confrontational like the other one and knowing you a little bit, I can see how that humor in that post wasn't picked up.  If you read through the sequence of posts, you'd probably see that it was simply a dark, humorous expounding to @soldier4402's comment regarding many who think that if you leave your used engine oil in for the winter, your engine block will get eaten away by the acid that develops as a result of accumulated moisture mixing with the sitting oil.  And that concept -- whether true or not -- seems to be quite an over-exaggeration, hence, "Acid-demon-oil".  Simply a goof on the idea that you must change your oil every year otherwise your engine is doomed. 

And if you notice soldier's clever reply to it, he got it and played along nicely unlike the stupid, idiotic, looking for a fight comment a few posts above.  Typical of the FMC (Fellowship of the Miserable Clownship). :lol: 

I'm pretty pissed I change my oil every time I go out on the boat.  Every winter I replace the engine and drive preventatively before something breaks and I am out some real money, just cheap peace of mind and makes me sleep well at night knowing I did it. 

While I am here, for the life of me I don't know which oil to use, nor do I know how to change a spare tire on my trailer.  UGHH!

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