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scharpestguy

White Smoke / Gauge Cluster / New Owner / 1997 Sunesta 210

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Hello All,

So I went and looked at a boat today, I have been kicking around getting a boat "again" for years and now my three children are 10/8/5 and we have a view of the lake. I went and looked at a 1997 Sunesta and it was overall pretty darn clean, no flex in the outdrive/transom, everything present including the canopy that was in good condition, no tears in any of the cushions although the hull and everything could use a detail to make it pop it was pretty clean.

Owner had agreed we could take it for a ride on the lake on Saturday and we could also put on the muffs and fire it up where it was parked to hear the engine running. Interesting part of this story is when we went to start (turned the key) there was no juice (power). Master Switch was left on so most likely the battery got drained. No problem father of seller pulls battery out of his vehicle and we attempt to jump start off battery using cables when white smoke started coming from underneath the gauge console and specifically from the gauges themselves. Seller apologies profusely and says he is just going to donate the boat, I ask what is your lowest price you will take, he responds with $2,000 deer (are prices allowed on the chaparral forum?), I offer $1,500 deer for the boat and double axle trailer, and we shake on it.

So with all that I am thinking the handyman he has installed the battery backwards, neither of the three cables were red (all were black), and the polarity's are reversed. We never could get the engine to turn over and there was no smoke from the alternator. I didn't have time to check and dig in deeper as I had to return to work and for $1,500 deer I don't think I have all too much to lose.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?

Thank you everyone and I hope I can contribute to the forum and community going forward.

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Trace the cable from the starter and put Red tape on it,If the battery was reversed you would blow the 90A fuse link so you would get no power anywhere

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I never take a electrically  smoked boat.  As my first job I did lots of wiring of radars for US Navy.  It ALWAYS is longer & more expensive than anyone but me estimates.

Hope you get very lucky.   I would have passed as the smoke came out of everything. 

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Got the boat home an hour or two. Hooked up battery chargers, master switch was OFF and a few minutes later with the key not even in the ignition and mind you the master switch OFF white smoke again from the console area. Definitely have something wrong electrically, hopefully it won't be too hard to track down Cyclops but the smoke may have gotten me a good boat and trailer for $1500 or a fiberglass tub but at least the trailer is pretty nice.

Need to track down the wire that is not running through the master switch and see how it is (mis)wired.

Thanks cyclops for your input and to Bt Doctur, any chance anyone has a 1997 Chaparral Sunesta 210 Parts Manual? I have the owners manual and original sales flyer already but would love the parts manual.

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Since you own it .  Disconnect ALL batteries to prevent a boat burning out of control.  Then take some pictures of the wiring harness behind the dash instruments. also wire bundle going to the engine.......... A complete SIMPLE rewire & instruments  with a blank instrument plate might go quickest.

Post the pictures if you can. Add a couple of the engine. Carb & old type of distributor ?   Engine could be any year.

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Well I got the engine running today. Both batteries are shot I think but I had it on the battery charger/booster and it cranks over quickly and started with a little starting fluid and purred. I had the muffs on the out-drive and let it idle for about three minutes, it restarted a few times and sounds great so that is awesome news. I also raised/lowered the out-drive and put into forward and reverse with no issues.

I am of the mind to pickup the following to correct the bad wiring/shorting occurring:

https://www.ezacdc.com/boat-wiring-products/marine-electrical-switch-panels/panel-rewire-system/

https://www.ezacdc.com/boat-wiring-products/boat-wiring-harness/

Attached are some pictures of the boat, motor, wiring.

Thanks everyone and I think this boat will be on the water sooner than I was thinking it might be.StarboardSide.jpg.58354f17dcb293ab10690c3c04a50b25.jpgBow.jpg.219c0bfd8773c0d2d73a5b667587cb24.jpgEngine.jpg.e8fb419e4099965f190bdfccd178a011.jpgStereoWiring.jpg.11b8db9658deffddb9dd120dd7ae50b3.jpgBehindGauges.jpg.a4bd745c97352fe9f9d98227e0f26a93.jpg

 

 

 

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Quick update. I removed the panels from behind the console where the head is and exposed the wiring and gauge clusters. Many of the black (ground) wires are burned and some have taken out or exposed the wire within the colored wires. I have placed an order with Wholesale Marine for 20 feet of each color (minimum order is 20 foot) of 16ga tinned wire and have some butt connectors ordered so I can get all the bad wires replaced. Still not sure of where the exact source is but it may be a matter of replacing all the bad wiring and hook up the batteries and put some eyes/nose (sniff) to see if any wires are burned/melting/shorting out. I am hoping that by replacing all the bad wiring it will correct the initial issue and I will be back in business.

 

Found out the boat has tilt steering wheel, that is pretty cool. I would like to replace the gauge/button panels, any suggestions for a source of these? I would think there might be some company I could send the old ones too who could take the measurements and cut out some new panels, any recommendations?

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If you're going to get new switches, would recommend getting the back lit style from the early 2000's and that Chaparral used. This will allow you to see what each switch controls at night without having a given switch powered up first (so long as navigation lights are turned on first)

Believe that this newer style of custom Contura switch should fit directly into your panel - original style was not back lit back in 1997 if memory serves when a given switch wasn't turned on.

Picture below is from a 1998 210 Sunesta with what I believe your helm and switches look like (minus the MerCruiser shifter)

img_Q1BNhkaIfF0ZLLa_r.jpg

2003 Sunesta 210 model below with later style back-lit Contura switches - picture is small and I apologize. They're not cheap but work well. (4, 6 and 8 terminal versions)

2562224L.jpg

 

Picture below of custom Contura style switches I'm talking about - taken from a Hurricane model boat, but you get the idea.

Image result for chaparral boats helm switches at night

 

Once all the wiring gremlins are figured out and repaired, I would look into the following items if budget allows:

1. Verify condition of gasoline - hopefully no signs of stale fuel, ethanol or phase separation.  Recommend running the engine on a shop outboard fuel tank first to verify operation.

2. Installing an aftermarket extended swim platform. That model was quite tight for space at the transom, and an ESP really transform the boat for added space, safety and ease of getting on and off the boat. (optional factory platform 3-1199 I'm sure in now NLA sadly)

3. Installing custom SeaDek or Gatorstep onto the integrated and extended swim platforms for even better grip and foot comfort. Cooler on the feet than bare white fibreglass too.

4. Replace shift and throttle cables - should be a 13' and 14' for Volvo application. Recommend going with upgraded SeaStar Xtreme cables - part #'s CCX63313 and CCX63314 (3300/33C Type Control Cable with 10-32 theads  - formerly Teleflex Marine)

5. Pull drive and inspect transom bellows and engine alignment. Replace bellows, etc. if needed.

6. Replace seawater pump impeller.

7. Engine tune up if required.

http://www.swimplatforms.com/showImages.php?mk=175

http://www.cecilmarineonline.com/search.php?search_query=switch cover&section=product

http://www.cecilmarineonline.com/electrical-1/

http://forum.chaparralboats.com/publications/PartsGuides/Sunesta/2003/210.pdf

Chaparral%20210%20&%20212%20Before.jpg

Chaparral%20210%20&%20212%20Sunesta%201i.jpg

Chaparral%20210%20&%20212%20Sunesta%201l.jpg

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I have done several MELTED wiring harnesses.  EXTREME   GENTILE care is required to NOT BREAK the brittle wires apart.  I used a powerful hair dryer to SOFTEN the plastic so I could trace the wire to both ends & replace the complete LENGTH OF WIRE in 1 piece.

Bee back after dinner.

Pizza:mandancing:    With G & T

 

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Shepherd1, wow, thank you so much. I didn't think of using a later model Sunesta Parts Manual but I am going to print that out tomorrow and add to my binder where I am compiling all the documents on the boat. Love your ideas on the switches, swim platform, and deck cool padding. I will have to inquire what the price of an extended swim platform costs but I like the looks and functionality of it.

Are the shift and throttle cables known problem areas? Is this a preventive maintenance item?

Boat came with a spare water pump impeller, I will get this replaced as a PM.

I will check the bellows, I'm sure someone has posted a youtube video of how to perform this check.

 

Any thoughts on replacement dash panels? I looked up the part numbers and didn't come up with any sellers and I called the manufacturer who stated they don't have any inventory of parts for these older boats.

Thank you again Shepherd, your post was a great uplift.

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On 2/3/2019 at 10:10 PM, scharpestguy said:

Shepherd1, wow, thank you so much. I didn't think of using a later model Sunesta Parts Manual but I am going to print that out tomorrow and add to my binder where I am compiling all the documents on the boat. Love your ideas on the switches, swim platform, and deck cool padding. I will have to inquire what the price of an extended swim platform costs but I like the looks and functionality of it.

Are the shift and throttle cables known problem areas? Is this a preventive maintenance item?

Boat came with a spare water pump impeller, I will get this replaced as a PM.

I will check the bellows, I'm sure someone has posted a youtube video of how to perform this check.

 

Any thoughts on replacement dash panels? I looked up the part numbers and didn't come up with any sellers and I called the manufacturer who stated they don't have any inventory of parts for these older boats.

Thank you again Shepherd, your post was a great uplift.

There are boat junk yards in the US that may have what you need. Another option would be to contact Sandy Cove Marine in Ontario who used to purchase transport loads of new discontinued parts for boats directly from Chaparral back when they were a dealer. Could try calling them to see if they have these parts in stock or in a flea market they used to run.

Personally, I think having the idea that you'll probably need to do a complete rewire and using Cyclops' trick of the hair dryer will go a long way. Using the correct colour and gauge of tinned marine grade wire will be the way to go too. Maybe the gauges will be NFG - if they are, recommend going with SeaStar / Teleflex Sterling series gauges, etc.

As you say, the shift and throttle cables are a preventative maintenance issue, but new cables work so much better than old stiff ones. With the SeaStar / Teleflex Xtreme version cables, they are built to a higher design standard, and last longer and feel smoother than standard type.

Hold off on the impeller change until the boat is ready to be splashed after all the repairs.

SeaDek will have a local dealer who should be able to take a laser scan of the integrated swim platform on your boat to get you an exact fit. Would think that SeaDek already has a pattern for swimplatforms.com ESP. If you do go with an aftermarket ESP option, do ask that you consider using the Chaparral factory support bar and brackets vs. the bent bar type that come with the aftermarket ESP. The factory version is very strong and give more choice for mounting locations.

Might be a little hard to see in the pictures below, but using these factory brackets will give you greater flexibility if you ever wanted to mount smart tabs, or conventional trim tabs, etc. in future.

Chris

 

Image result for 220 ssi swim platform

 

Image result for installing chaparral 2130 ss shepherd

IMGP0277.jpg

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On 1/27/2019 at 10:23 PM, scharpestguy said:

Well I got the engine running today. Both batteries are shot I think but I had it on the battery charger/booster and it cranks over quickly and started with a little starting fluid and purred. I had the muffs on the out-drive and let it idle for about three minutes, it restarted a few times and sounds great so that is awesome news. I also raised/lowered the out-drive and put into forward and reverse with no issues.

I am of the mind to pickup the following to correct the bad wiring/shorting occurring:

https://www.ezacdc.com/boat-wiring-products/marine-electrical-switch-panels/panel-rewire-system/

https://www.ezacdc.com/boat-wiring-products/boat-wiring-harness/

Attached are some pictures of the boat, motor, wiring.

Thanks everyone and I think this boat will be on the water sooner than I was thinking it might be.StarboardSide.jpg.58354f17dcb293ab10690c3c04a50b25.jpgBow.jpg.219c0bfd8773c0d2d73a5b667587cb24.jpgEngine.jpg.e8fb419e4099965f190bdfccd178a011.jpgStereoWiring.jpg.11b8db9658deffddb9dd120dd7ae50b3.jpgBehindGauges.jpg.a4bd745c97352fe9f9d98227e0f26a93.jpg

 

 

 

I got you a wiring diagram for your boat. email me at chriss@marina.ca and I'll send it to you.

Chris

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I still am leery of the white smoke gauges. How can that happen?  STeam ??  Several gauges.  But the gauges are working close enough now ?

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Quick update on my wiring. Due to weather here in Huntsville with it either being wet, cold, or wet and cold I have had limited time to work on the boat outside. But I made great progress this weekend. I have all the gauges and the stereo and some other assorted wires replaced, upgraded, connectors replaced with marine grade shrink connectors, etc...

If someone could provide me some insight into my last area by the bus bar. All the ground wires off the bus bar have melted and need to be replaced and these are feeding into a female end harness connector that has 9 wires going into it. The female ends goes into the male end which only has 6 wires. See pics. Why the 9 to 6 and what about the other 3? Anyone have any insight/ideas??? See pics below and thank you.

5.jpg

6.jpg

7.jpg

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6 hours ago, scharpestguy said:

If someone could provide me some insight into my last area by the bus bar. All the ground wires off the bus bar have melted and need to be replaced and these are feeding into a female end harness connector that has 9 wires going into it. The female ends goes into the male end which only has 6 wires. See pics. Why the 9 to 6 and what about the other 3? Anyone have any insight/ideas??? See pics below and thank you.

Didn't you take up @Shepherd1's advice to email him your info (as he stated above) and he would send you the complete and correct wiring diagram for your exact boat?  You should take advantage of that kind of help when it comes from one of the best and most knowledgeable members on this forum going out of his way to help you.  Good luck.

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You definitely have a ground wire that is not grounded somewhere.  You need to trace all those ground wires and ensure they're going to common ground on the boat.  And by the look of it, you have a ground wire touching a power wire somewhere.  Definitely get with Shephard and get that wiring diagram and disconnect those gauges until you find the issue. Cause you're going to end up frying your new gauges while trying to figure out the problem.  I'd simply hire a boat electric guy instead of playing the hit or miss game.

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Hatem,

I have been offline for a little bit and didn't realize I had a message from Shepherd1. I replied to his message though via email and PM and am eternally grateful for individuals such as  Shepherd1 that participate in forums such as these to help and share knowledge and resources.

 

Water Dawg,

I most definitely have a power wire touching a ground wire. I may need to end up calling a marine wiring guy and I found one advertising on Craigslist not too far away who I may need to end up calling if all else fails. Overall though the project I "think" is going pretty well. I am enjoying getting it rewired and getting rid of the rubbish wire and terrible connections a prior individual left behind. The stereo wiring was atrocious and I have that all cleaned up. I am physically examining and touching each length of wire and each connection and if slightly questionable replacing with marine grade heat shrink connectors and/or wire.

I have not yet purchased new gauges but am rewiring the existing gauges assuming/hoping they are operational. This will be determined after I finish the wiring and give it a test on the hard. I still have a few small areas on the fiberglass I need to fill/patch but this is weather dependent for a sunnier day hopefully over 70f. I need to clean the boat and polish the hall and replace three missing Chaparral letters on the port side but I have obtained two of the three off ebay and am still seeking the letter C. The speedo tubing and sending unit needs to be replaced and I have the replacement on hand. Need to test the bilge pump and all running lights (swap with led bulbs). Etc....

 

Fun project so far and looking forward to getting it wet this summer. All the best everyone.

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You will enjoy the daylights out of the boat we you finish.  Stay with the complete overhaul of it.        :clapsmiley:

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Cyclops,

Thank you. I hope we will. The kids are super excited and it has been a neat project to work on with my boys. I had both boys working on the plumbing which consisted of reconnecting the hoses to the cup holder drain holes. All of them were disconnected and they fit better under the seats and are more flexible than I am ;-). Measuring the sink drain holes in the sink and ice chest behind the sink as the plastic fitting that connects to the sink is busted on both of them. And it was super handy to have them fetch something while I was sitting in the head.

I chatted with a seller of a 1997 Sunesta 210 in South Carolina tonight on the way home and he is willing to snap a few photo's for me later this week. Hopefully this turns out since the area I am addressing I believe is the area on the wiring schematic next to a bus bar labeled TB2 (To Battery 2?) with no indication of what wires go where. See Page 51: http://forum.chaparralboats.com/ownersManuals/1997.pdf

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21 hours ago, scharpestguy said:

Hatem,

I have been offline for a little bit and didn't realize I had a message from Shepherd1. I replied to his message though via email and PM and am eternally grateful for individuals such as  Shepherd1 that participate in forums such as these to help and share knowledge and resources.

I sincerely apologize, I really didn't mean to jump ugly on you.  I didn't realize the possibility that you could've missed his post but I have first hand experience with that and it does happen from time to time. 

Good luck and hope it helps you out and works out in the end.  I think the issue is not too difficult and once it's wired correctly, you'll be flying!  I've always loved these older chaparral boats and specifically the work that people do to not only fix issues, but specifically restorations are always a blast to follow.  Good luck, sir!

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The kids now have a VESTED interest in the well being of THEIR boat.  Size up each job. Get to a point where they can do a part of it VERY SAFELY.  Have them check each spark plug with you as they are pulled out. Have a new one there for a comparison.  Let them give a opinion if the plugs look O K . Then smoothly tell them the differences.

Nice to have them feel they could do things correctly. If you get banged up.  It happens.  They quickly learn about carb chokes working correctly .  What each gauge is telling them .  Drifting away from where it should be.   Etc. They really do want  you to teach them all you know.  In small bits as time moves on. They are great on cleaning seats & spider poop stains. 

I had other Grand kids asking to help me kill spiders with the bug zapper after sun down.  Kids want to be like adults all the time.  We just need to protect them from injury.

Enjoy the best years with them.   :wub:

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Hatem,

No apology necessary sir. I was lapse in checking back here but sincerely thought I would have obtained a notification of a reply on my email like IH8MUD forum does but each forum is unique, but I have learned! What I really need is a big covered shop (heated/cooled of course ;-)) so work doesn't need to slow down due to weather!!

 

Cyclops,

Not boat related but this past weekend the boys and I gave an atv we acquired from an estate sale late last year that wasn't running an oil change and I did exactly as you mentioned. Had them warm the oil by running the engine a little, found the drain bolt, had them find the right socket, lefty loosie, now when it comes free try and hold on to the bolt and pull it away,  you "will" get oil on your hands and we will just wipe it off. Drain plug on a Yamaha Grizzly 350 is darn near 2 inches long in order to clear the skid plate, it finally came free, bolt dropped in the pan, oil on my sons hand and he says Dad I got oil on my hand, he gave me that look of what should I do / how should I react. I replied "yep, feels good doesn't it?", he thought about it and said yes it feels good and I told him to go wipe it off. Good times with the kids and they are sponges to learn everything they can. All the best.

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1 hour ago, scharpestguy said:

Hatem,

No apology necessary sir. I was lapse in checking back here but sincerely thought I would have obtained a notification of a reply on my email like IH8MUD forum does but each forum is unique, but I have learned! What I really need is a big covered shop (heated/cooled of course ;-)) so work doesn't need to slow down due to weather!!

You're a good man, thank you.

I hear that!  I'm facing the same problem with a @#$%@#load of big items to do on the boat before May 1st! 

A lot of members here don't use the "quote" function which is why you don't get the notification.  Unless you click on 'Quote' at the bottom of the individual's post that you are replying to, it won't notify that person.  Then you just have to go to "Activity" at the top left corner of the forum page, click onto that and all the recent threads with recent posts will show up.  If you've posted in any of those threads, there will be a star on the ledt of the thread titles which would tell you there's a new post posted.  That's the only way to check if your post hasn't been quoted.

It would certainly make it much easier if people actually quoted other members' posts.

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Update/Documentation for those reading this in the future with a similar issue.

TB = Terminal Block not To Battery # like I stated previously in another post. You all most likely knew that but I didn't. The Chaparral wiring diagram shows a TB1 and TB2 but how and which wires feed into TB1 and TB2 is not represented on the wiring diagram. From the link below it appears that Chaparral is representing TB1 to be a Negative Bus Bar and TB2 to be a Terminal Block on the wiring diagram.

I found a great explanation here: https://newwiremarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/NWM_Wiring_Guide_2019_R2.pdf?mc_cid=61e664a3bc&mc_eid=e371f223ee

My issue is my negative wires were mostly all burned and took out wires adjacent to them. My TB2 has Red and Black wires feeding into it and I don't yet know how this specific Chaparral Terminal Block is setup but I will examine it most likely on Friday and will report back my findings and some additional pictures. Stay tuned.

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Are you kind of getting doubts about which colored wires are to be replaced & where they come & go to ?   WE can help you there. If Chap does not have your wiring diagram.

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