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BusterDouglas

Rusted Freeze plug! Need Help!

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I have a 2002 260 sig with 350 Mag MPI BIII.  The Freeze plug on port side has rusted away.  It is directly behind the front engine mount.  

Has anyone ever replaced these before?  Do I use quicksilver brass plugs or rubber expandable?  How to I safely support the engine front port side so I can remove the Engine mount? I do not want to raise or lower the engine, just support the weight.

I am not sure if  I can fit a 2x6 across stringers under front of oil pan and support with a scissor jack but that is what I was thinking but not sure if I can damage hull  or oil pan doing this.  If the motor weighs 950 lbs then approx. 250 lbs per engine mount would be fair to assume? 

 

Any suggestions or ideas would be great.  Thank-you

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Not a big deal. Double 2 x 6" timber across gunnels then a threaded rod n(7/16" diameter minimum) between the 2x6's. Use thru bolted chain as an attachment to the engines front lifting eye, and atop the 2 x 6's use a length of angle iron drilled to the size of the all thread. As you tighten the nut against a flat washer, it will mate with the angle iron, and as the rod begins to rise, the engine will come with it. I use this method for engine alignment when a boat is too big to get in my shop. Don't think about lifting it from the bottom. Start thinking about pulling it up from the top. Very safe and stable. I have a length of aluminum channel I use across the gunnels, but lumber works too. Just be sure to remove the top nuts from both front motor mounts and allow the rear of the engine to pivot on the transom mounts. An expandable rubber plug is fine but make sure you change out it's hardware to all stainless. Also, pad the top of both gunnels to prevent any gel coat scratches.  W

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If it rusted out you have auto parts in there , there just plain steel. SS or brass dont rust away. If it is a auto block you might consider pulling the motor to replace the steel ones with brass or SS ones

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^^^1  All marine engines should have brass "freeze plugs". Steel is for an automotive engine and if you have steel ones, chances are someone tossed an automotive long / short block in there. If you have closed cooling (antifreeze with heat exchanger), the steel will work, but seems not so in your case.

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I cannot find the plug in the bilge and it is rusty at the hole so i assumed it rusted away vs popped. Possible the plug has fallen behind the engine mount bracket.  I have ordered a pack of 5 brass expandable plugs and will also pick up the quick silver bras 1 5/8 plug.

So back to supporting the engine this is was I have researched and want opinions.  

Using a bumper or basketball, deflate and put under port side engine.

Loosed Engine mount nut stringer side enough so that there is 1mm of room

Pump basketball slowly until you see corner slightly lift.

Undue engine mount bracket bolts on engine, if possible swing bracket to side without having to undue the Nut entirely.

Clean up hole and install plug.

reinstall engine mount bracket bolts on engine, then slowly deflate basketball until engine rests back in place, then tighten nut. Torque everything to oem spec.

This can all be done without having to do an alignment as the engine height didnt change when rested back and 1mm increase in height wouldn't cause stress on other mounts.

 

Has anyone heard or tried this? 

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If it is under /behind the mount you need to:

Shift into For and remove the drive

Properly support and raise the motor

Remove the front mount by removing the lags/bolts and then the 3 bolts in the block

Using the correct size socket , coat the plug with sealant and drive it in flush

Check engine coupler alignment after installing the mounts

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1 hour ago, BusterDouglas said:

I cannot find the plug in the bilge and it is rusty at the hole so i assumed it rusted away vs popped. Possible the plug has fallen behind the engine mount bracket.  I have ordered a pack of 5 brass expandable plugs and will also pick up the quick silver bras 1 5/8 plug.

So back to supporting the engine this is was I have researched and want opinions.  

Using a bumper or basketball, deflate and put under port side engine.

Loosed Engine mount nut stringer side enough so that there is 1mm of room

Pump basketball slowly until you see corner slightly lift.

Undue engine mount bracket bolts on engine, if possible swing bracket to side without having to undue the Nut entirely.

Clean up hole and install plug.

reinstall engine mount bracket bolts on engine, then slowly deflate basketball until engine rests back in place, then tighten nut. Torque everything to oem spec.

This can all be done without having to do an alignment as the engine height didnt change when rested back and 1mm increase in height wouldn't cause stress on other mounts.

 

Has anyone heard or tried this? 

You do not want to raise the engine more than 1/4" unless you plan on pulling the out drive. To do so would put excessive strain on coupler and gimbel bearing. All you want to do is take the weight off of the mounts so that you can remove the one. Hard to control the amount of lift using your pneumatic jack. The all thread method I described is solid as a rock and can enable you to lift in 1/16" increments. As soon as you feel any movement what so ever, you are good to remove the entire mount.  W

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I would trust & highly recommend you go with Wingnut & his threaded rod setup.  It will not spring a leak & drop completely down causing lots of drive damage. Or scaring the daylight out of you. Now you would have the problem of raising the engine up for any repairs Or just putting the mount back in place.

Wingnut all the way.

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To be honest, I didnt understand visually all of what Wingnut said.  Anyone have a drawing or picture of such device? sorry I think I have an idea, just not clear

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3 minutes ago, BusterDouglas said:

To be honest, I didnt understand visually all of what Wingnut said.  Anyone have a drawing or picture of such device? sorry I think I have an idea, just not clear

Take a 4 x 4 that is wider than the boat. Drill a 1/2" hole in the middle. Put a cloth or rubber pad atop the gunnels on both sides and lay the 4 x 4 across with it passing over the lifting point of the engine. Bolt a short chain to the engine lifting eye with the other end bolted to a 2' length of 7/16" all thread. Slip the other end of the all thread up through the hole in the 4 x 4 and slide on a flat washer and nut to the top side. Tighten the nut until strain is applied to the chain. Remove the front motor mount top nuts and continue to tighten the all thread until you feel some slight upward engine movement. Now you are fully supported and can remove the engine mount. As I said, I have a 4" aluminum channel that I use for a beam. 4 x 4 would be OK too as your talking less than 300#. A pair of 2 x 6's would be bullet proof, but likely unnecessary.  W

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You might NEED to go to a real lumber yard to get a safe / solid beam.  H D & Lowes should not have a quality 4 x 4 most of the time.  You might get lucky if you check the whole pile.

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19 hours ago, BusterDouglas said:

thank you that helps.  Do I use a washer and nut to attach the chain to the all thread? 

Yes, double nut and double washer on each side. There’s a few ways to do this. No real right or wrong, just different. A suggestion, as Wingnut’s already mentioned. Put a heavy cotton blanket/moving blanket or something similar under the 4x4 (2x6) on each side to protect the glass and trim. The ends should extend past each side a good bit so if it slips/twists a little when the load is taken up, it doesn't pull/slide/fall into the boat. Some boats slope down toward the stern/swim platform in this area. If yours does, a couple of ratchet straps will anchor the support nicely.

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Well here is my brief update.  I pulled a herniated disc lifting my son, so I am unable to do the repair quite yet.

Thank-you for all your advice, especially wingnut once again.  I designed the lift using 1/2" threaded rod. Let me know if I did it correctly. I can remove the one nut above the chains and put it up on top and have a double nut. There are also 1/2" washers that can also be doubled up under chains.

Thanks again.

lift.jpg

lift1.jpg

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That's heavy duty for sure. If the 2x4 suffers from too much deflection at the center line, you can always add a second one, or a section of steel angle to the top side. Otherwise, you are good to go. Pad those gunnels and if the are canted on a severe angle at the contact point, you can always add a pair of ratchet straps to the spring line cleat. No reason to have the chain doubled up either, but it hurts nothing.    W

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When you apply the weight, see how much deflection you get. All wood is different. You see bending, and hear cracking, double up or add steel.  W

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the 4x4 worked great. 

So it looks like I dodged a bullet.  The freeze plug popped out and was brass.

I could not believe how difficult this was to do. some Engineer design idiot used this engine mount to attach another bracket for something else and will not let the mount to fully be removed. I was able to move it to the side slightly and get 1" of room to try and get freeze plug back in,  But I could not get a new plug in (1 5/8), couldn't get an expandable in because the engine mount was in the way from putting it flush as the expandable is about 2" thick.

After hours of frustration, I grabbed the old frost plug and banged it back it.  

So overall the problem seems to be fixed, no water leaking, no water in bilge, no water in oil, engine maintain temp of 140 after 1/2 hour at around 2000 rpm.

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Now I have another problem, After running the engine and everything seems ok, I went to fill fresh water tank.  

I am positive it was winterized properly, all the pipes had pink through them, the water heater was fully drained first. (I own a travel trailer and winterize the frsh water system all the time)

So the heat exchanger I assume is not leaking because the engine is running fine no leaks.

water started pouring out rear left corner from what I could tell. I checked all the fittings were tight and not leaking.  I have a Seaward F-600, so if this is original from 2002 I can expect it has reached end of Life?  Some people state theirs leaked after a few years. I can always bypass the water heater after the pump to solve temporarily.  Need to decide if we use hot water enough to justify $500 to replace whole unit.

Any ideas?

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58 minutes ago, BusterDouglas said:

Now I have another problem, After running the engine and everything seems ok, I went to fill fresh water tank.  

I am positive it was winterized properly, all the pipes had pink through them, the water heater was fully drained first. (I own a travel trailer and winterize the frsh water system all the time)

So the heat exchanger I assume is not leaking because the engine is running fine no leaks.

water started pouring out rear left corner from what I could tell. I checked all the fittings were tight and not leaking.  I have a Seaward F-600, so if this is original from 2002 I can expect it has reached end of Life?  Some people state theirs leaked after a few years. I can always bypass the water heater after the pump to solve temporarily.  Need to decide if we use hot water enough to justify $500 to replace whole unit.

Any ideas?

I pulled apart a Marine domestic water heater and found that the owner had "thought" he had winterized properly, but the internal aluminum tank had a 2" split at the seem from freeze damage. I welded it back up, and it was still fine 10 years later when he sold the boat. You might want to tear into the water heater to see if it can be repaired. Many shops can weld aluminum.  You mentioned that your freeze plug in the engine popped out, which is an indication that the water jacket is not draining properly. You may want to remove the two drain plugs on either side of the block and get a drill rod up in there to clear any sediment from the water jackets, ensuring proper engine cooling and affirming that all the raw water is drained before adding the antifreeze.  W

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