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Dennis10912

Solid core or foam core hull under the water line?

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On 9/14/2019 at 4:39 PM, Dennis10912 said:

Here is a better pic of the thickness of the hull, it is 3/8" thick, I wish it was 5/8"  (My boat is a 2016 Sunesta 264 with 8.2 mag).  I did take a sharp probe to core including all the exposed areas and it was hard all the way around.

Right, the 3/8" FRP is not much for that boat. It would be close to 1" with Nida-Core: 3/16" to 1/4" FRP on each side with 1/2" Nida-Core in between, and much, much stronger. At least no worries about laminate layers separation.

 

On 9/14/2019 at 4:39 PM, Dennis10912 said:

About cutting the larger hole; I may make the hole bigger from the center opposed to offsetting to the right.  I don't want to make a mistake so what do you think about using the Starrett KA-19?  Present hole is 2", new hole will be 2 13/16".

"Oops" is a great idea. If the 2 13/16" hole drilled off center would cover the existing hole and most if not all of exposed fiberglass and gel coat damage, there is another idea you could try. Use 2" arbor to cut the circle out of plywood. Then glue the circle inside the existing hole using any suitable glue or poly (epoxy might be too hard). Then using 2 13/16" arbor try and fit a new hole so it spans from farthest point on the edge of existing hole from the center of gel coat damage area. That way the new hole will cut out all the glued plywood and, hopefully, most if not all of the damaged material.

 

4 hours ago, Dennis10912 said:

This is a pic from the internet of an installed 742xs. ?

Fits well, looks good. What are you going to do withe the existing gauges that are there right now?

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Off center hole over hole simulation pictured below.

I think I would be tempted to try it and effectively cut out most of significant damage.

Once you have the larger arbor try a dry fit to see how it all works for real.

HoleOverHole.jpg

 

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^^^^^^^^^   That patterning in the post above will not work with the KA-19 drill bit that the OP is buying.  That bit is designed to go right into the existing hole and drill the larger one with equal material removed around the entire diameter of the existing hole.

That was why I had suggested originally to make a template of the new-size hole on thick paper and tape it on and then you have the option to offset it to remove the damaged material or do whatever you wish. 

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 4:39 PM, Dennis10912 said:

Here is a better pic of the thickness of the hull, it is 3/8" thick, I wish it was 5/8"  (My boat is a 2016 Sunesta 264 with 8.2 mag).

You did mention the size Sunesta, I just forgot (getting old) sorry, my bad.  Now that you will have more than just me chiming in with different opinions, you might get some confusion but I'll just say this for now.  If you already ordered the bit, go with the way you think is best but it will not remove that damaged material and then you will have to fix that exterior gelcoat depending on how much of that is removed with the bit and how much of the outside transducer flange covers.

But somewhat more importantly is the transducer itself which was why I was asking what it was leading to, a smartcraft gauge only or a current GPS?  By the looks of your helm, I don't see a GPS ATM so be sure that whatever transducer you get, that it works for that wire because you don't want to lose the functions it provides.

12 hours ago, Dennis10912 said:

I am learning as I go, so everyones wisdom and knowledge is much appreciated.  As seen in these pics, here is the stock helm.  I purchased the Chaparral Sunesta bezel for the MFD and placed it on the dash to get an idea what it will look like, as seen in the next pic

IMG_1382.jpg.9c9c0ae1a0f69c4098f7487a93431819.jpg

It would look great, EXCEPT have you given any thought as to what happens to the functions on those gauges?  Yes, some you'll be able to transfer to the MFDS GPS unit you get using the NMEA2K network, possibly additional direct wiring but here I'm looking at the left gauge, I see oil pressure on the top which is something you can get on NMEA2K but I can't tell what the others are on that one left gauge.  The right gauge I see on the bottom left GAS level (which is also NMEA2K available), not sure what the top gauge is BUT, that bottom, right gauge looks like your outdrive positioning.  I could be wrong, but when I see the word "UP" on a dial on a boat with an outdrive, that can only mean one thing.  So you really should consider or plan what you want to do with all that.  I guess "UP" could also mean the position of your trim tabs, but I highly doubt those would be on a round dial.  So I think that is your outdrive postilion indicator which is a VERY important feature to have.

Don't go tearing into things and replacing things just yet until you have a plan for all of this.

 That patterning drawn in the post above is actually a good idea which again, is why I was telling you to draw the new diameter on a thick piece of paper and place it on the hole (and we hadn't even seen the pics of the damage yet when I suggested that) and cut it using several different and easy methods.  The only easy way to cut that is with a jigsaw but there is a trick to drilling an offset hole, too, but it's one of those "not so easy" methods that you really need to be familiar some higher level of expertise.

If it were me, I would forget about that bit to be perfectly honest because like I said, that will only drill the current hole into a larger diameter one.  I would do 1 of 2 things.

1) Fix the current damage with the epoxy you mentioned, add strands of 1708 or even laminating glass around the 3/8" edge and glue them well.  Then use the epoxy faring and sand smooth and either re-install the same transducer you had in there (since we know now it wasn't the transducer that was leaking, but rather a much larger hole) so once you've fixed that and added the proper sealant and reinstalled it, it should work perfectly fine.

2) Find out first if the new 742xs will give you all those function off the NMEA2K network or any other way first, before drilling or jutting any shape and changing transducers, especially the one dial that shows your outdrive position.  To me, I use that A LOT as I am in salt water here in MA and we go in and out of coves and come close to islands and rocky ledges and have between 10ft and 12ft tide swings.  So sometimes the water is really low and I raise my outdrive a lot going through these low water levels.

So be 100% sure that all the functions on those dials you will not lose unless you don't care at all about them or some of them.  Then in that case, you can do it the way you want to.  But I would fix current transducer, re-install it to keep those dials and gauges and add another transducer for the GPS like I did on my boat and position the GPS in another place.  It really works great and then you can add the NMEA2K network to it and get so many other additional functions like I currently am on my Adding ALL-Volvo NMEA2K Interface with Bluetooth thread. 

Have a solid plan for those 2 dials before deciding what to do with that current transducer.  That's your #1 priority.

BTW, not sure if you've answered this yet, since there is no current GPS, what exactly is that current transducer doing for you?  I'm sure it's indicating DEPTH under boat, but do you know if it is providing any other info?  We'll get through it.

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The gauge to the left is (oil pressure, battery, temperature), the gauge to the right is (water storage level, fuel level, engine trim).  When Chaparral added the 742xs to the center  dash, they deleted the (oil pressure, battery, temperature) gauge and they deleted the far right gauge not seen in the bezel pic above (speedo via pitot tube, and depth). Chaparral then moved the (water storage level, fuel level, engine trim) to the far right to replace the (speedo via pitot tube, and depth).  In essence, the factory Garmin is suppose to show, oil pressure, battery, temperature, ground speed and depth.  If you have the Smartcraft harness install with your Garmin 741 could you verify this?

My plan is (before doing any cutting whether to the dash or hull) is to first purchase both the Simrad nss7 evo3 and the Garmin 742xs at the same time. I will then assess esthetically which I prefer and how well it fits with the factory Chaparral bezel,  (no cutting will be done yet). (I will Use 30 day return window for the MFD I do not want).  After deciding which MFD I want, I will then purchase the Mercury Smartcraft can bus harness (so as to retrieve data from engine) and NMEA 2000 starter kit.  I will also need to purchase either the Mercury Gateway if I chose the Garmin, or I will purchase the Mercury Vessel View Link if I chose the Simrad. I will test the MFD (I intend to use) and while it lays on the seat (still no cutting or drilling yet) make sure I get all the data I need, i.e., engine oil pressure, battery and engine temperature. After making sure all works (with the exception ground speed and the depth finder since boat will be out of water) I will then move forward with the cutting  a drilling. My understanding is Navico and Mercury products work very well together show more data than the Garmin, it just $$$.  

Since it is end of season and winterization is around the corner, I may wait to see if prices drop for the MFD's.

The damage portion of the hull surrounding the hole will be repaired as soon as I get the resin delivered (on order). I'm sure by now it has fully dried out.

 

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Quote

That patterning in the post above will not work with the KA-19 drill bit that the OP is buying.  That bit is designed to go right into the existing hole and drill the larger one with equal material removed around the entire diameter of the existing hole. 

Duh, ain't that obvious.

One will use "Oops" as assembled to enlarge a hole on the same center point only.

One will use two separate arbors to enlarge an existing hole with new one drilled off center.

A 2" arbor to cut the plywood to be used as a base for an off center pilot hole for a new off center hole drilled with larger 2 13/16" arbor, as restated below:

Quote

"Oops" is a great idea. If the 2 13/16" hole drilled off center would cover the existing hole and most if not all of exposed fiberglass and gel coat damage, there is another idea you could try. Use 2" arbor to cut the circle out of plywood. Then glue the circle inside the existing hole using any suitable glue or poly (epoxy might be too hard). Then using 2 13/16" arbor try and fit a new hole so it spans from farthest point on the edge of existing hole from the center of gel coat damage area. That way the new hole will cut out all the glued plywood and, hopefully, most if not all of the damaged material.

 

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18 hours ago, Dennis10912 said:

the gauge to the right is (water storage level, fuel level, engine trim).

Outdrive trim. :) So that's a pretty important gauge I would think and to be perfectly honest with you, I'm not sure if you can get that on the 742xs through any type of either wiring of network.  Do you know if you can?  I know I can't on the 741xs, or let's put it this way, I haven't seen it as an option that can be added and I have a completely separate and dedicated dial for that function alone.  What I find interesting it how Chaparral is now putting all of these in cluster dials.  Nothing wrong with that, the only issue would be how would you solve that if you took that gauge out of there for the 742xs. 

18 hours ago, Dennis10912 said:

When Chaparral added the 742xs to the center  dash, they deleted the (oil pressure, battery, temperature) gauge and they deleted the far right gauge not seen in the bezel pic above (speedo via pitot tube, and depth). Chaparral then moved the (water storage level, fuel level, engine trim) to the far right to replace the (speedo via pitot tube, and depth).

So is that what you would do with the outdrive trim gauge, move it to the far right?  There seems to be an obvious reason why they deleted the oil pressure, battery, and temperature since yes, those can come up on the 742xs and there is a reason why they moved the outdrive trim guage to the far right, and that's because it won't show up on the GPS MFD.  Just so you know, that's why I was asking about that gauge because it's important to have and you don't want to lose it and also be aware that you'll most likely need to relocate it. 

18 hours ago, Dennis10912 said:

If you have the Smartcraft harness install with your Garmin 741 could you verify this?

So what I have -- and remember mine is a 2010 276ssx so it is 6 years older than your Sunesta --  is a dedicated, smartcraft gauge.  So that plastic AIRMAR transducer wire really only gives me depth (as far as I know) on my smartcraft gauge which looks like this:  They combined it in a digital format within the RPM gauge.  So it shows things like fuel flow, temperature, engine hours, contrast control, and of course, it has all the active alarms on it.  This is what it looks like:

wokuaCC.jpg

tjlGlo2.jpg

I (and I'm sure a lot of other fellas here who have it) use it a lot.  I mostly have it set on engine temperature 99% of the time since that's pretty important to know.

yXtchUl.jpg

Funny thing is that despite having the 741xs, I find myself using the Garmin 531 GPS MAP because while shifting through all the menu settings on the 741, it's good to still see where you are even though I have no depth markings on it.  That was the reason for the addition of the 741xs was to get all the surrounding depths so I knew what I was heading into an not just the depth below the boat, lol.  Doesn't do me that much good except for curiosity.  And I wish Garmin actually still made the 500 series that provided a lot of info so I can replace that relic.  But I actually like it and it is redundancy up to a point.    So for me, I'm almost positive that the only function I get from that plastic AIRMAR transducer is the  depth for the digital reading on the smartcraft gauge.  Otherwise, it serves no other function on my boat (that I can tell).  For you, I'm guessing it does the same thing except maybe give you water temp

18 hours ago, Dennis10912 said:

If you have the Smartcraft harness install with your Garmin 741 could you verify this?

I don't.  My Garmin 741xs gets smartcraft information via the Volvo NMEA2K interface network that I added to it to give me engine gauges.  It and my radar function completely separately from the Smartcraft gauge.  So while I have most of the functions it provides on my current instrument dials, it just gives me some form of redundancy.  You should check out this thread, even though you have a Mercury, the overall principles are the pretty much the same.  It's still a work in progress just FYI, but it's completely separate from my smartfcraft or any helm instruments or gauges which is not all that different from what you want to do except you want to get rid of a particular set of gauges and have them all show up on your MFDS which is certainly cool, just be sure not to lose the outdrive trim indicator.  And don't be shy, jump in on that thread and ask Mercury questions because  @TexasPilot71 has a 5.0 MAG 350 and has Vessel View and NMEA2K and I believe his MFD and radar are Simrads (VERY COOL SET UP!!!!!) that he could probably at least show you how he set his up and even just what he has that could help you make certain decisions that would be in your favor.  I LOVE this thing and the last time out (this past Sunday), I found myself shifting through the engine gauges and seeing what the readings we and comparing them to the analogue gauges I have and what I do have showing up on the NMEA2K network on my interface is right on the money with the other gauges.  The only current details I'm not getting are any ones related to the gas on board and that is only because I have to fill in all the info on gas tank capacity (which I was not sure about and actually wrong - I thought I had an 85 gallon tank but turns out I have a 103 tank so still working on those settings) and once those are filled in, all the available gas sensors will give me most of the dials that are currently not functioning.   

 

19 hours ago, Dennis10912 said:

My plan is (before doing any cutting whether to the dash or hull) is to first purchase both the Simrad nss7 evo3 and the Garmin 742xs at the same time. I will then assess esthetically which I prefer and how well it fits with the factory Chaparral bezel,  (no cutting will be done yet). (I will Use 30 day return window for the MFD I do not want).  After deciding which MFD I want, I will then purchase the Mercury Smartcraft can bus harness (so as to retrieve data from engine) and NMEA 2000 starter kit.  I will also need to purchase either the Mercury Gateway if I chose the Garmin, or I will purchase the Mercury Vessel View Link if I chose the Simrad. I will test the MFD (I intend to use) and while it lays on the seat (still no cutting or drilling yet) make sure I get all the data I need, i.e., engine oil pressure, battery and engine temperature. After making sure all works (with the exception ground speed and the depth finder since boat will be out of water) I will then move forward with the cutting  a drilling. My understanding is Navico and Mercury products work very well together show more data than the Garmin, it just $$$.

Before saying anything, sounds like you got a plan for what you want to do, just please don't lose that outdrive dial indicator. I know I keep being frustratingly pushy about that, but it is really important to have and if you can put it somewhere else and then you have the room in the center for the 742xs, that's great!  But I like your plan and it sounds like yo have it all mapped out including getting the smartcraft kit and NME2K starter kit and all that good stuff. 

And what I did want to say, while I do see more Garmins out there than any of the other brands, if I had a chance to do it again, I might've looked a little more at the Simrad and what they had to offer.  I think the Simrad nss7 evo3 is outstanding, and something about their MFDS seem different from the Garmin.  I can't point at what it is, but clarity is on there to some extent.  Some of the larger Simrad units are out of this world and I feel like they've leaped over Garmin (as far as the larger and more complex units) and Garmin has taken a notice and you can tell they're trying very hard to stay on the same level or outdo Simarad.  I went to a 4-hour Garmin seminar at West Marine and they were really pushing one of their larger systems.  But they do have this VERY cool forward facing transducer to warn you of low depth showing up ahead of you.  Forward-looking sonar came out a few years ago by an independent co. but now Garmin is introducing the same exact concept as that co. with this new transducer.  They also have some new amazing fish fider transducers like their new Panotpix LiveScope transducer.  You can actually see the fish moving around below you in real time.  Definitely some cool stuff and I think Garmin is still pretty much up there.

19 hours ago, Dennis10912 said:

Since it is end of season and winterization is around the corner, I may wait to see if prices drop for the MFD's. 

UGH!  Not yet and we're milking it as far as we can.   Keep a look out and even at boat shows you'll get amazing deals. 

BTW, I'm in MA a little north of Boston and totally salt water boating and I see you are in California on the opposite side of the country but are you salt water boating or fresh water?

19 hours ago, Dennis10912 said:

The damage portion of the hull surrounding the hole will be repaired as soon as I get the resin delivered (on order). I'm sure by now it has fully dried out. 

. Hahaha, yeah let's hope not!  Sounds like you have thing under control.  I'm really looking forward to installing this bow thruster but hope I can get started on it before it gets too cold.  I'll have to bring her into some storage once I'm ready to do the lamination process if it gets too far into the cold.  Keep us posted.

 

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