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Benda23

Port engine stall/drive seize

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Only 1 of your 2 drives is damaged...……….. Leave the other alone.  No problem right now.  

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23 minutes ago, Benda23 said:

If that is what they find would you recomend replaciing the entire drive, and if i do that route should I replace both at same time or can one be newer than the other?

Those drives are not cheap.  Either way, let's wait to and see what they find out and you could be surprised with an easy fix, who knows.  But while you're at it you need to address the pivot pin on the other drive which can be easily fixed when they remove that outdrive as well to inspect it, have them fix it so it pivots and turns nicely no need to replace that one whatsoever and spend all that money if the only thing that is wrong with it is the pivoting. That's just me.

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Just now, Hatem said:

Those drives are not cheap.  Either way, let's wait to see what they find out and you could be surprised with an easy fix, who knows.  But while you're at it you need to address the pivot pin on the other drive which can be easily fixed when they remove that outdrive as well to inspect it, have then fix it so it pivots and turns  nicely no need to replace that one whatsoever and spend all that money. That's just me.

That fix if they do it the correct way requires the motors to be removed, there is a option of cutting into the metal of the drive brackets and putting a plug in the spot after it is done but my mechanic thinks it looks hokey and I agree. Right now I just want it back up and running before end of season. Try to get as much time on the boat before the dreaded winter comes

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25 minutes ago, Benda23 said:

That fix if they do it the correct way requires the motors to be removed, there is a option of cutting into the metal of the drive brackets and putting a plug in the spot after it is done but my mechanic thinks it looks hokey and I agree. Right now I just want it back up and running before end of season. Try to get as much time on the boat before the dreaded winter comes

I agree, it looks like a patch but only if a hack went at it.  If a good mechanic cuts a perfect hole and doesn't drill those thousands of little holes just to cut out a tiny rectangle and use a grinder (someone who knows how to use a grinder to cut that rectangle perfectly and finish the corners off with a Fein tool (oscillating tool) and do a really nice job with the new cover and especially the sealant and paint it, it won't look hokey at all.  That sealant is what makes it hokey but he can put on a really well done bead and paint it.  I know they tell you not to mess with the bead (because they're worried you'll do too much and remove some sealant, it's just a liability issue so they cover themselves by telling you to leave the oozing sealant alone and don't touch it) but that's a bunch of BS!  Once it's dry, you can easily cut the excess ooze with a razor and peel or scrape it off and run another bead around the rectangle and smooth it out with a finishing caulking tool.  Will look perfect!  More importantly is you'll save yourself what $8K  How much are those Bravo 3 units going for now, have you checked?  Just curious I don't know how much they're going for but believe me, if the repair is well done like I describe and paint the entire drive that heavy, Mercury black, it'll be perfectly fine and look great you won't even notice it and after you get out on the boat for that first time and that joystick is easily and smooth (probably working BETTER than it did before), you won't even think about that repair, especially if it's well done like I said.  That's what I would do but then again I would do the repair myself.

Do you use any antifouling paint on the outdrives since you slip it?

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13 hours ago, Hatem said:

Oh and I never said docking caused this failure. 

I must be confused then. Other than docking, when is the joy stick used? 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Phillbo said:

I must be confused then. Other than docking, when is the joy stick used? 

There's a "Docking" setting which limits the speed so you can only ..move at turtle speed (or docking speed) and then there's a "High" setting where I don't think there is a speed limit and you can cruise using the joystick.  Let's move on from this.

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2 hours ago, Benda23 said:

If that is what they find would you recomend replaciing the entire drive, and if i do that route should I replace both at same time or can one be newer than the other?

Lets see what the first drive tells us. Locking up a drive is not all that common, and as long as the cases are viable, then it becomes a matter of gear and shaft evaluation. Bearings and seals are relatively cheap and if the failure is not within the cone clutch assembly then it would seem cost effective to rebuild the old unit as long as you have confidence in the repair facility and they are willing to back their work with at least a 90 day guarantee. As we are nearing the end of the season, ask them to cover the drive for 3 actual operating months which may include some weeks into next boating season. Drives will go up to 15 years and 1,500 hours if cared for and they did not have a hidden defect in the first place. If you need a really fast turn around then replace it, and save the old one for parts, or potential rebuild as a position #2 replacement down the road. Maintenance is key, as is operating conditions so unless both drives had the wrong lube installed, or there was impact damage I see no reason to be concerned about drive #2.  W

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So they got it out of the water today and found the Bearing Carrier of the lower unit had jammed into the prop, somehow moved or came untreaded. He had to heat up the nut to get it to release and it also looks like it stripped some of the threads. I am having him price new lower units I dont really want to try to repair anything would rather just start over new. Plus should be faster too just order and bolt on vs trying to replace small parts. He said dosent have a reason as to why that would happen

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2 minutes ago, Benda23 said:

I am having him price new lower units I dont really want to try to repair anything would rather just start over new.

Both? 

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3 minutes ago, Phillbo said:

Both? 

He said there isnt a need to do anything to the other one

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On 9/9/2019 at 2:45 PM, Benda23 said:

So they got it out of the water today and found the Bearing Carrier of the lower unit had jammed into the prop, somehow moved or came untreaded. He had to heat up the nut to get it to release and it also looks like it stripped some of the threads. I am having him price new lower units I dont really want to try to repair anything would rather just start over new. Plus should be faster too just order and bolt on vs trying to replace small parts. He said dosent have a reason as to why that would happen

I don't think those are very cheap TBH.  Please let us know what the cost of 1 new drive will be.  You don't have to tell us the entire amount with labor but I'm interested to see what those Bravo III outdrives are going for.  Are your props salvageable and interchangeable?  Or are the spline grooves inside the props also stripped?

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22 hours ago, Benda23 said:

So they got it out of the water today and found the Bearing Carrier of the lower unit had jammed into the prop, somehow moved or came untreaded. He had to heat up the nut to get it to release and it also looks like it stripped some of the threads. I am having him price new lower units I dont really want to try to repair anything would rather just start over new. Plus should be faster too just order and bolt on vs trying to replace small parts. He said dosent have a reason as to why that would happen

The upper gear case is likely fine. I would have him replace the lower half and get back to boating. The lower lists for $4,500, and be sure to specify the correct ratio as all the gear reduction in a Bravo is done in the lower gear case. Save the old one too as gears and shaft are likely serviceable. W

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So now the mechanic looked at the upper and there are problems with the gears so it is a whole drive replacement. Bad thing more money but good thing it ships and should be a fast bolt on and back in the water for weekend

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3 minutes ago, Phillbo said:

Could he determine what caused the failure? 

 

Can it be an insurance claim?

No he cant put a claim in and going to see what the adjuster says. Hopefully they will cover. I have a $2500 deductible but still better than $9k

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$ 4000 parts

$ 5000 labor

$ 9000  total for 1 lower unit.   Why stern drives are not so popular any more.  Compared to inboards & V drives.

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32 minutes ago, cyclops2 said:

$ 4000 parts

$ 5000 labor

$ 9000  total for 1 lower unit.   Why stern drives are not so popular any more.  Compared to inboards & V drives.

Your numbers do not line up... Parts are much more expensive in this case. If someone is charging you $5000.00 to swap out a drive you deserve what you are getting.. Think before you type... 

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Yea i think $8500 is the parts not sure labor yet but cant be a ton as installing the drive is fairly quick. That is a new one i guess there are cheeper rebuilt or aftermarket options too

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10 hours ago, Benda23 said:

Yea i think $8500 is the parts not sure labor yet but cant be a ton as installing the drive is fairly quick. That is a new one i guess there are cheeper rebuilt or aftermarket options too

A new transom assembly alone is around $3,200.  Here's a remanufactured Bravo 3 which appears to include the inner transom shield for $6.690 with a 1-year warranty. 

https://www.crowleymarine.com/p/773501/Mercruiser-Bravo-III-Complete-Driveshaft-Assembly

So allowing you to buy the main items to save on any added percentage not withstanding, you're looking at around $9,500 to as much as $12K if you go with a brand new outdrive and also depending on if there is a certain type for joystick use or whatever.  Then there is labor, of course.  If they're not replacing the inner transom shield and reusing the old on (which they probably should if nothing is wrong with it and if I was you, I would attempt or politely insist on keeping the inner transom shield), otherwise the engine needs to come out and of course that's a much  larger project.  Keep all that in mind since pulling out the engine is probably a huge, added cost.  A lot of stuff to disconnect even for pros.

So you're not going to have him fix the pivot pin on the port outdrive while he's at it?  I suppose it'll probably be ok but you never know. Those have independent hydraulic controlled cylinders that turn each outdrive separately.  Ask him if those seem to be operating ok especially on the  portside one. 

Good luck and I hope it gets done in time for the weekend for you.  If it doesn't, I would have him fix that pivot pin FOR SURE!  But that's just me. :) 

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10 hours ago, Benda23 said:

Yea i think $8500 is the parts not sure labor yet but cant be a ton as installing the drive is fairly quick. That is a new one i guess there are cheeper rebuilt or aftermarket options too

Because the drive locked up, have them check engine alignment too as it only takes a few extra minutes while the drive is off. A drive seizure has the same negative influence as hitting a submerged object. Sounds like your cone clutches and upper gear set learned that lesson.   W

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