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Stuart Adair

Progress update....

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Hi,

Progress is being made. I've got another full day sanding and filling and then I'll be ready for paint, as long as I can get a suitable days weather.  Outdrive and bellhousing has been cleaned and repainted (Will change the oil and waterpump when its back on the boat).  Swim platform is being remade. Prop has been cleaned, polished and sharpened and I've got a big box of fancy new bits to go on.

Let me know what you think of the bottom picture. I might need a new set of anodes ;);)

20191110_115507

 

20191110_115453

 

20191110_161704

 

20191110_115447

 

 

 

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Are you sure the structure is sound and not rotted? Might want to investigate before going further (been there, done that).

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Hi. The structure is good and solid for sure, and it has a new bulge pump 3 months ago. I was getting a couple of inches of water in the bilge but that turned out to be coming from a holed bellows. 

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You bring back a lot of memories.

When I did mine I spent ten 40hr week-ends over the winter of 92 and 93.

Yeah, a good 400hrs.

Loved every minute of it, except removing all of the bottom paint, that someone did not prep right when it was done.

Denny.

 

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Folks whats your advice on painting the hull. Do I need to use primer or not?  The internet seems to be split and I'd like to know what you think. I'll be using a barge paint as my top coat.

Stu

 

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16 hours ago, Denny said:

You bring back a lot of memories.

When I did mine I spent ten 40hr week-ends over the winter of 92 and 93.

Yeah, a good 400hrs.

Loved every minute of it, except removing all of the bottom paint, that someone did not prep right when it was done.

Denny.

 

That's why looking at the pics of your Alpha it looks like it's newer than a brand new BRAVOOOOOOO 3!  :)  That's quite the effort and coming from a body shop guy, it's obvious because it looks amazing.

32 minutes ago, Stuart Adair said:

Folks whats your advice on painting the hull. Do I need to use primer or not?  The internet seems to be split and I'd like to know what you think. I'll be using a barge paint as my top coat.

Stu

 

Paint?  Why paint?  I'm almost 100% certain that is gelcoat on your boat, no?  How about trying an aggressive buffing?  I bet you can make that thing shine like new using a certain couple of steps, starting with a light wet sanding with 600 grit sandpaper and soap, then an aggressive compound followed by a lesser one and then a polishing compound.  It'll look brand new.

I wouldn't paint over the gelcoat unless that barge paint is ok to use over gelcoat.  Otherwise you need to sand it down VERY well and prime it.  But paint is better than gelcoat but I think you can make that look brand new with the right steps and a lot of elbow grease and patience.

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On 11/11/2019 at 4:52 PM, Hatem said:

That's why looking at the pics of your Alpha it looks like it's newer than a brand new BRAVOOOOOOO 3!  :)  That's quite the effort and coming from a body shop guy, it's obvious because it looks amazing.

Paint?  Why paint?  I'm almost 100% certain that is gelcoat on your boat, no?  How about trying an aggressive buffing?  I bet you can make that thing shine like new using a certain couple of steps, starting with a light wet sanding with 600 grit sandpaper and soap, then an aggressive compound followed by a lesser one and then a polishing compound.  It'll look brand new. 

I wouldn't paint over the gelcoat unless that barge paint is ok to use over gelcoat.  Otherwise you need to sand it down VERY well and prime it.  But paint is better than gelcoat but I think you can make that look brand new with the right steps and a lot of elbow grease and patience.

Disagree, his gelcoat is finished. It will never STAY looking good. It is porous, old, and brittle. Best to paint once and be done, assuming the transom and stringers aren't rotted. On most old boats they are. If they sound hollow when smacking with a hammer, they are gone.

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Bingo all the way drew.    

Time for a belt sander and a rubber cleaning stick to unclog the sanding  belt hundreds of times.   DO get 2 bilge pumps working in the old girl.   Check & replace any floats that stick ON or OFF.  Fuses at the battery connection points.     Check  for cracks on the bottom .  Fiberglass can get brittle hard if it was mixed incorrectly during construction.   Have seen it many times in company equipment.   

Drews advise to do a SEVERE banging check on the stern wall & plastic covered beams holding up the engine is needed.  Check for crushed engine beams or easy to turn engine mounting bolts.  loosen the top engine NUTS only about 1/2 inch. That will allow the engine to settle crookedly if the wood  is rotted out unseen.

Get lucky.  

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I am not trying to ruin your thread, but trust me it is better to find out now than do what I did...no sense putting 1,000 hours of labor into a rotted boat.

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I have done 2 boats That cost me dearly. in time & money.  Money was really not available.  Time was. But 40 years ago everything was very cheap for a DIY person.

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3 hours ago, drewm3i said:

Disagree, his gelcoat is finished. It will never STAY looking good. It is porous, old, and brittle. Best to paint once and be done, assuming the transom and stringers aren't rotted. On most old boats they are. If they sound hollow when smacking with a hammer, they are gone.

This....  It's too far gone for wet sanding. 

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3 hours ago, drewm3i said:

Disagree, his gelcoat is finished. It will never STAY looking good. It is porous, old, and brittle. Best to paint once and be done, assuming the transom and stringers aren't rotted. On most old boats they are. If they sound hollow when smacking with a hammer, they are gone.

+1, the only option you have left is to paint.

Power sand every inch with 150 grit, because if you don't the tiny porus pin holes will show up, because the paint will bridge over them and you will see them in the new paint.

Spray on an epoxy primer and final sand it with 400 grit.

The better quality of paint, the better quality paint job.

No matter how much or how little you spend on her, it will be more than she is worth, so it has to be a labor of love, and you plan on keeping her forever.

I took mine to the next level, for 3 reasons, 1, because doing it was in my wheel house, 2 when not in use, she is in a headed building sitting on her trailer, and 3, I will keep her forever, next year will be our 28th season together.

Like others here have said, make sure that her frame work is solid, if so then go for it.

You don't have to make a show piece, the most important part is the prep, because no matter what you paint her with, you don't want it to fall off.

Keep us posted, with lots of pictures.

Denny.

 

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Thank you so much for your replies and advice. The gel coat is way past saving as you say and I'm going to use a barge paint that's specified for use on GPR boats, rolling and tipping. I've been over every inch of the boat and it all appears to be sound so this year is all about making it look a little better. I know it won't be a show-boat but that's not what its about for me, just looking reasonable and having fun is what I'm all about. Really missing our Saturday nights on the boat with a bottle of gin so come spring time all the effort will be worth it.

Thanks for your support.

Stu

 

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I slightly disagree that the gelcoat can't be saved. My boat looked just as bad as the OP and after a lot of work of sanding and buffing it turned out just short of factory fresh.  It can be done.

IMG-2980.jpg

BUT, as Drew pointed out, it doesn't stay. The sun is cruel to my gelcoat. The side of the boat that doesn't face the sun is in better shape than the sunny side. Every year I have to give it a little buffing and waxing to bring it back. Sometimes I'll do a mid season touch up if the boat is out of the water.

I wish I had the skills that Denny has as I would love to "repair" my boat.

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On 11/12/2019 at 4:55 PM, drewm3i said:

Disagree, his gelcoat is finished. It will never STAY looking good. It is porous, old, and brittle.

It was only a suggestion.  Looking at the pics there is all sorts of weird different colorations like in the corners and rust spots on the top white so either way, he has a lot of prep work to do to get to whatever he wants to do which sounds like he's settled on painting it which is another reason why I asked him why paint?  It looks like the previous owner touched it up in many spots with who knows what?  So it wouldn't hurt to at least try to wet sand it and see what happens since you'll have to do some much heavier sanding to get it prepped for painting. 

But do you know where this boat and fella are from?  He's in England you know what the weather is like in England?  It rains for 3 days and is cloudy and sprinkly for the other 4 hahaha. 

But it sounds like his mind is made up already to paint it anyway.  The 2nd part of my post referred to making sure it is properly prepped prior to painting.  Did you agree with that? :-)

Alexseal?  Looks like you watch a lot of Andy's videos and he loves that stuff because he basically hates spraying anything. lol

8 hours ago, SST said:

I slightly disagree that the gelcoat can't be saved. My boat looked just as bad as the OP and after a lot of work of sanding and buffing it turned out just short of factory fresh.  It can be done.

Of course it can.  I've seen boats in similar condition brought back to life at stratch and snatch marinas I couldn't believe my eyes!  But you know what it's like when I disagree with someone, I'm automatically tagged as a non-conforming sheep and a narcissist lmfao.  Then they all crawl out of the woodwork. :D 

Look at what this fella did to his badly oxidized boat starting out with 1500 grit wet-sanding and then following a very particular 3-step process of buffing with a very particular brand of compound followed by a tireless polishing to get those final results.  And yes, he'll need to polish it every year to maintain it, so what?  Small price to pay for springtime prelaunch.

img_0100_035120eb643bee6b8f5cb7002fa1698

 

 

img_0102_054697b48cc78130532766447b0711d

57954425664_e2d405e9_94a9_4b7b_905f_f2cd

57954430553_38a6f269_d0ae_4642_8832_7942

That's pretty #$%$&$% unbelievable and never say never.  Old timers will eat you apart.

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The blue looks JUST like I did my first car polish job.  They gave me a polish WITH FINE rubbing compound in it. I went thru the deep purple paint in several places. Looked exactly like his blue light colored swirls.  Paint it Stuart. Might want to check with a couple of AUTO PAINTING places.  We boaters are doing / using automotive clear coat over the colors & varnish. NOTHING in sunlight is fading.  Just like cars never fade anymore. Anywhere. Check it out before painting.

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19 hours ago, Denny said:

Power sand every inch with 150 grit, because if you don't the tiny porus pin holes will show up, because the paint will bridge over them and you will see them in the new paint.

Spray on an epoxy primer and final sand it with 400 grit.

DISCLAIMER:  You're the last guy I would argue with about body shop work for obvious reasons loool so I'm just discussing your suggestions so I can understand them better.  But, when I read the first sentence, I would've thought the sanding process would involve a lot more than just one round of 150 grit paper.  And on what tool?  I'm just curious because I've done my share of resurfacing and restorations and I would make sure the entire coat of gelcoat is taken off because you don't want any of that under your new paint.  Problem with that is now you've exposed glass in many areas, if not all, and then you need to fare the entire areas you've sanded down with an epoxy fairing (which if you're not used to (because it's kinda like Bondo), you're gonna need to sand that layer down and bring it to paint ready and depending on how skilled you are at using fairing compound, you could get away with one layer but most can't, especially with rounded edges etc.   

But then I read that 2nd sentence and it made me think, after the epoxy primer, I'm guessing it's thick enough to fill in all those "bridges" you talked about which are very important like you said.  So is that epoxy primer enough to fill those in even after it gets sanded (because like you said, it will need to be sanded down to receive paint) and will that do it?

The other thing about paint is if you really want to do it right, you need to remove all the items that are NOT getting painted and put them back on like thru-hull rings and rubrails and cleats etc.  Not a big fan of masking (taping) unless it's almost impossible or very difficult to remove the item.

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Caution

I learned a lot on my first take off the old paint . Then repaint it.   I did not realize there are hard & soft fillers & paints.  Talk about disappointment ?? I finally took the car to a body shop for advise & help.  He helped me to do a good job on the very  bad  original wine paint.  The only thing that is easy to do the first time .  

Fall out of a tree.

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While he may be able to bring it back to look pretty good, it will NEVER last and will be a constant pain in the @ss. It won't require waxing every year, but a compound. Also, gelcoat is inferior to good paint. Just look at Denny's boat!

This article I wrote for Practical Boat Owner is relevant so I am going to link it:

https://www.pbo.co.uk/expert-advice/3-ways-to-revive-faded-gelcoat-62326

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13 hours ago, SST said:

I slightly disagree that the gelcoat can't be saved. My boat looked just as bad as the OP and after a lot of work of sanding and buffing it turned out just short of factory fresh.  It can be done.

IMG-2980.jpg

BUT, as Drew pointed out, it doesn't stay. The sun is cruel to my gelcoat. The side of the boat that doesn't face the sun is in better shape than the sunny side. Every year I have to give it a little buffing and waxing to bring it back. Sometimes I'll do a mid season touch up if the boat is out of the water.

I wish I had the skills that Denny has as I would love to "repair" my boat.

For being in the water all season after season she looks pretty good, it's a lot of work to keep her looking that good under those conditions, your diligence is paying off.

I think she looks great, and something to be proud of.

I get on a lot of boats through out the summer that set in the water all season, and the ones that do not get the care that you give yours, sure shows their age, and can't hold a candle to yours.

Denny. 

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7 hours ago, Hatem said:

DISCLAIMER:  You're the last guy I would argue with about body shop work for obvious reasons loool so I'm just discussing your suggestions so I can understand them better.  But, when I read the first sentence, I would've thought the sanding process would involve a lot more than just one round of 150 grit paper.  And on what tool?  I'm just curious because I've done my share of resurfacing and restorations and I would make sure the entire coat of gelcoat is taken off because you don't want any of that under your new paint.  Problem with that is now you've exposed glass in many areas, if not all, and then you need to fare the entire areas you've sanded down with an epoxy fairing (which if you're not used to (because it's kinda like Bondo), you're gonna need to sand that layer down and bring it to paint ready and depending on how skilled you are at using fairing compound, you could get away with one layer but most can't, especially with rounded edges etc.   

But then I read that 2nd sentence and it made me think, after the epoxy primer, I'm guessing it's thick enough to fill in all those "bridges" you talked about which are very important like you said.  So is that epoxy primer enough to fill those in even after it gets sanded (because like you said, it will need to be sanded down to receive paint) and will that do it?

The other thing about paint is if you really want to do it right, you need to remove all the items that are NOT getting painted and put them back on like thru-hull rings and rubrails and cleats etc.  Not a big fan of masking (taping) unless it's almost impossible or very difficult to remove the item.

If the gelcoat is in good shape there is no reason to remove it, it will make the best base you can have.

I used a DA sander, and sanded the gelcoat as far as needed to remove  the pin holes.

The holes are too small, no paint or primer will fill them, they have to be removed.

Then I applied 2 coats of epoxy primer, and as I did with all of the cars I prepared for painting, my finished sanding was by hand ( all of my finished body work was done by hand also) using 400 grit wet or dry sand paper and a soft rubber sanding block, and dry sanding it along with an air duster.

She was pretty naked, only thing she had left on was her rub rail, too difficult to remove.

Denny.

Image result for da sander

.

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