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GPS track shows off course on 5212

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Why  I only use plastic coated charts.  If I can not see what I need to.  I stop.  Or never start the trip.  

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 12:34 AM, Denny said:

I heard somewhere that the government will not allow you to have absolute accressey.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory, big bro. :D Kidding.  It's very possible, certainly.  I know that some boaters in Florida get jumped on suddenly by a slew of USCG boats by surprise because they accidently approach waterfront homes of ex-presidents or even on term presidents that happen to be there vacationing at the time, yet there was nothing on their GPSs that showed these areas to be restricted for any type of boating.  I've checked the accuracy of my G3 map and breadcrumbs using my slip and many buoys in many places against boat location and without knowing the exact number, I can see that it's very, very close and pretty accurate. 

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 12:34 AM, Denny said:

All of my waypoints and routes that are absolutely accurate, are the ones that I have personally and physically been there to put them in.

And they are the only ones that I will trust at night.

One time in the winter at home with my GPS I plotted a course to a marina that I had never been to. I did not have any corrodanence to the entrance, so used the chart display on the GPS. The next summer I ventured out to go to the marina, when I got there, I had missed the entrance by 100 yrds and was in 4 ft of water. I'm glad that I did not make that trip at night. So I moved over to the entrance and remarked the waypoint. Now day or night I hit my physically placed waypoint, and I am dead on to the entrance.  Denny.

Wow, 100 yards is a lot.  What GPS are you using, Denny?  I haven't done a lot of waypoint settings with the new G3 map that I installed midway through last summer, but it has a great feature for waypoints (which the G2 Vision does as well, but not the standard G2) and that is it automatically sets your waypoints to navigate a water route, instead of the old, standard straight line that cuts right through land lol.  On my G2 that came with the 741xs, it didn't have that capability and just gave you a straight line.  Good for open water but not in areas with a lot of islands and just coastal boating.  But on the G2 Vision, you can take that straight line and alter it by selecting certain "turns" on it that will keep you in water.  You obviously need a touch screen for this feature to work.  I'm guessing that's what you're doing, right?  On the G3 Vision, I believe it actually takes whatever waypoint you select while taking your boat size and draft info that you plug in -- when setting it up -- into consideration and automatically calibrates the quickest and safest water route for you.  I think this might be a feature on the G2 Vision as well.  But I haven't done it yet and will certainly try it this summer when we hopefully get out there.

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On 1/20/2020 at 9:41 AM, Hatem said:

Sounds like a conspiracy theory, big bro. :D Kidding.  It's very possible, certainly.  I know that some boaters in Florida get jumped on suddenly by a slew of USCG boats by surprise because they accidently approach waterfront homes of ex-presidents or even on term presidents that happen to be there vacationing at the time, yet there was nothing on their GPSs that showed these areas to be restricted for any type of boating.  I've checked the accuracy of my G3 map and breadcrumbs using my slip and many buoys in many places against boat location and without knowing the exact number, I can see that it's very, very close and pretty accurate. 

Wow, 100 yards is a lot.  What GPS are you using, Denny?  I haven't done a lot of waypoint settings with the new G3 map that I installed midway through last summer, but it has a great feature for waypoints (which the G2 Vision does as well, but not the standard G2) and that is it automatically sets your waypoints to navigate a water route, instead of the old, standard straight line that cuts right through land lol.  On my G2 that came with the 741xs, it didn't have that capability and just gave you a straight line.  Good for open water but not in areas with a lot of islands and just coastal boating.  But on the G2 Vision, you can take that straight line and alter it by selecting certain "turns" on it that will keep you in water.  You obviously need a touch screen for this feature to work.  I'm guessing that's what you're doing, right?  On the G3 Vision, I believe it actually takes whatever waypoint you select while taking your boat size and draft info that you plug in -- when setting it up -- into consideration and automatically calibrates the quickest and safest water route for you.  I think this might be a feature on the G2 Vision as well.  But I haven't done it yet and will certainly try it this summer when we hopefully get out there.

The Gps that I am using on my girl is a 27 yr. old Garmin 162 Map with an internal antenna. With the little B&W 4&1/2" screen it was hard to see, so a added the laptop and a program called Nroute, that at one time was supported by Garmin, but no longer is. I am still able to use it, and it works just fine. Making changes no longer is automatic, I have to do it manually.

On the little boat (inflatable) I have a Garmin 547 Map that works well for where I go with the little boat. Off of the St.Clair River there are a lot of little tributaries that meander back into the middle of nowhere, miles and miles of protected waterways an Mother Nature at her best.

I thought that I would give you a little taste of my summer water world. Hope you all enjoy the rides.  Denny.

 

Image result for st clair river and tributaries

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The weakness of  thru the air information.  Is a clever group CAN do something like that. AS a test or a legal  purpose.  Security is a legal purpose to me.  

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On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 9:37 PM, Denny said:

The Gps that I am using on my girl is a 27 yr. old Garmin 162 Map with an internal antenna. With the little B&W 4&1/2" screen it was hard to see, so a added the laptop and a program called Nroute, that at one time was supported by Garmin, but no longer is. I am still able to use it, and it works just fine. Making changes no longer is automatic, I have to do it manually.

On the little boat (inflatable) I have a Garmin 547 Map that works well for where I go with the little boat. Off of the St.Clair River there are a lot of little tributaries that meander back into the middle of nowhere, miles and miles of protected waterways an Mother Nature at her best.

I thought that I would give you a little taste of my summer water world. Hope you all enjoy the rides.  Denny.

 

Image result for st clair river and tributaries

Awesome!  I wish your videos were a bit longer, ma man!  That thing is very smooth on the water, even the laptop isn't moving a smidgen!  Nice set up and not much upgrading needs to be done at all since it looks like you have everything you need there.

I crack up every time I see that US/Canada border delineated right down the middle of the river, including the St. Lawrence River.  At first I thought that was the craziest thing to do when establishing a border since it would be very difficult to not only patrol, but to control it vs a land border.  But after looking at it more and understanding it, it actually works better than a land border.  They take that very seriously for boaters from what I've heard and not just the USCG along with its Canadian version work it, but many of the environmental agencies out there get involved in protecting it and making sure those who belong on one side or the other stay on their side.  Pretty wild.  Have you ever had any issues with that? 

BTW, talking about accuracy of GPS' on this thread, I was listening to NPR driving in the truck just yesterday, they had a segment on the development of the GPS and all things related and it reminded me of how it was originally created which I bet not too many people know about this great piece of history. 

In 1957, when the Russians launched the first, active satellite in the famous Sputnik 1 and being smack middle in the height of the Cold War where it was tit for tat between the two superpowers, the US was developing their nuclear submarine fleets that could launch nuclear ballistic missiles and they were getting ready to test the new Polaris missile from the newly-built submarines and they didn't have a way to locate these subs.  They could launch their nukes and had all the precision for guidance and all that stuff, but they lacked the ability to know exact coordinates of their subs!  So they needed a way to identify that location given the newly introduce satellite technology as well as being concerned about Sputnik's capabilities and whether the Russians had the ability to locate US submarines.  So it certainly didn't make sense that the Russians might -- or might not -- be able to locate US subs while the US couldn't, without using obvious coms channels etc. that of course defeated the purpose of silence and stealthy.  So the US Navy commissioned a couple of scientists/physicists from John Hopkins University to develop a way to use satellites to find and pinpoint the exact location of these nuclear submarines and about a year later, they had developed TRANSIT which at the time, used 5 satellites to pinpoint the exact location of the submarine(s) and from there on, GPS was eventually created.  Granted it had a little starting help from the Russian satellites which used Doppler technology and were able to reverse that effect to create global positioning systems/satellites.  Then in 1967, once the US Air Force got involved and wanted their own capabilities to pinpoint theirs and possibly enemy locations that Project 57 was created, and it was that project that essentially developed the GPS that we know today.  But it all started with the need to know where US submarines' carrying (SLBMs) locations prior to launch so an effective defense system can be created and implemented after the fact in order to keep the submarines safe once they launched their missiles.  They claimed that it was all part of the entire deterrent factor of the nuclear threat at the time. 

So it was all strictly military based and operated until interestingly enough, when Korean Airlines flight 007 (not sure if there is some irony in the number of that flight loool) was shot down by the Soviets in 1983 after straying into prohibited Russian airspace, killing all 269 poor souls onboard that Reagan issued an order to make GPS available for civilian use.  And here we are today!  We all have GPS thanks to the US Navy needing to know exactly where their nuclear submarines that were capable of firing nuclear ballistic missiles were, and of course all the people in between that and the 267 people who died in that terrible tragedy and Ronald Reagan.  Just thought that was an interesting tidbit to mention on this thread after hearing about it on NPR just yesterday and I bet A LOT of people didn't know about that.  :) 

 

 

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On 1/16/2020 at 4:09 PM, Iggy said:

No Problem!! I would do A firmware update if you have not done one already. If you still have the problem, I would call Garmin.

I am being told that there are no new updates for the 5212 and that the 5212 is unable to run g3 maps due to processor limitations.  If I am under bad info, please let me know - will help me avoid bigger $$ to upgrade from my current 5212

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59 minutes ago, JohnZ said:

I am being told that there are no new updates for the 5212 and that the 5212 is unable to run g3 maps due to processor limitations.  If I am under bad info, please let me know - will help me avoid bigger $$ to upgrade from my current 5212

The 5212 is not that old.  I copied this right from Garmin "Ver. 2019.1030.0, as of Oct 30, 2019," So there is new firmware! Or at least 4 months old.  I would call Garmin on the G3 maps that you speak of. But I would say, that you could use them. My 741 is older and I am using G3 Vision.

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1 hour ago, JohnZ said:

I am being told that there are no new updates for the 5212 and that the 5212 is unable to run g3 maps due to processor limitations.  If I am under bad info, please let me know - will help me avoid bigger $$ to upgrade from my current 5212

I'm not seeing it on their latest list of compatible devices straight off of Garmin's website.  Here's the entire list and also a support link which you can use to ask them directly, just incase there is a discrepancy.  But I doubt it since that list is the latest and seems to include not only all G3 Vision compatible GPS devices lists including hand-helds, watches lol and even glass cockpits. Even every model variety of certain GPS models.  Best of luck.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/662661#devices

And here are some of its terrific features.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/662661

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3 hours ago, Iggy said:

The 5212 is not that old.  I copied this right from Garmin "Ver. 2019.1030.0, as of Oct 30, 2019," So there is new firmware! Or at least 4 months old.  I would call Garmin on the G3 maps that you speak of. But I would say, that you could use them. My 741 is older and I am using G3 Vision.

Are you talking firmware or software....   The latest software update for the 5212 that I could find on Garmin is ver 7.80 form June of 2015.

Where are you finding firmware updates?

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4 hours ago, JohnZ said:

….. will help me avoid bigger $$ to upgrade from my current 5212

I'm looking to upgrade too... I'm hoping there will be some good deals at the Boat show next week ;-)

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35 minutes ago, WetCoastWillie said:

Are you talking firmware or software....   The latest software update for the 5212 that I could find on Garmin is ver 7.80 form June of 2015.

Where are you finding firmware updates?

Yes, firmware!  I am finding them on the Garmin website. Go there and search for 5212 and it will come up.  

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On 1/26/2020 at 10:33 AM, Hatem said:

Awesome!  I wish your videos were a bit longer, ma man!  That thing is very smooth on the water, even the laptop isn't moving a smidgen!  Nice set up and not much upgrading needs to be done at all since it looks like you have everything you need there.

I crack up every time I see that US/Canada border delineated right down the middle of the river, including the St. Lawrence River.  At first I thought that was the craziest thing to do when establishing a border since it would be very difficult to not only patrol, but to control it vs a land border.  But after looking at it more and understanding it, it actually works better than a land border.  They take that very seriously for boaters from what I've heard and not just the USCG along with its Canadian version work it, but many of the environmental agencies out there get involved in protecting it and making sure those who belong on one side or the other stay on their side.  Pretty wild.  Have you ever had any issues with that? 

BTW, talking about accuracy of GPS' on this thread, I was listening to NPR driving in the truck just yesterday, they had a segment on the development of the GPS and all things related and it reminded me of how it was originally created which I bet not too many people know about this great piece of history. 

In 1957, when the Russians launched the first, active satellite in the famous Sputnik 1 and being smack middle in the height of the Cold War where it was tit for tat between the two superpowers, the US was developing their nuclear submarine fleets that could launch nuclear ballistic missiles and they were getting ready to test the new Polaris missile from the newly-built submarines and they didn't have a way to locate these subs.  They could launch their nukes and had all the precision for guidance and all that stuff, but they lacked the ability to know exact coordinates of their subs!  So they needed a way to identify that location given the newly introduce satellite technology as well as being concerned about Sputnik's capabilities and whether the Russians had the ability to locate US submarines.  So it certainly didn't make sense that the Russians might -- or might not -- be able to locate US subs while the US couldn't, without using obvious coms channels etc. that of course defeated the purpose of silence and stealthy.  So the US Navy commissioned a couple of scientists/physicists from John Hopkins University to develop a way to use satellites to find and pinpoint the exact location of these nuclear submarines and about a year later, they had developed TRANSIT which at the time, used 5 satellites to pinpoint the exact location of the submarine(s) and from there on, GPS was eventually created.  Granted it had a little starting help from the Russian satellites which used Doppler technology and were able to reverse that effect to create global positioning systems/satellites.  Then in 1967, once the US Air Force got involved and wanted their own capabilities to pinpoint theirs and possibly enemy locations that Project 57 was created, and it was that project that essentially developed the GPS that we know today.  But it all started with the need to know where US submarines' carrying (SLBMs) locations prior to launch so an effective defense system can be created and implemented after the fact in order to keep the submarines safe once they launched their missiles.  They claimed that it was all part of the entire deterrent factor of the nuclear threat at the time. 

So it was all strictly military based and operated until interestingly enough, when Korean Airlines flight 007 (not sure if there is some irony in the number of that flight loool) was shot down by the Soviets in 1983 after straying into prohibited Russian airspace, killing all 269 poor souls onboard that Reagan issued an order to make GPS available for civilian use.  And here we are today!  We all have GPS thanks to the US Navy needing to know exactly where their nuclear submarines that were capable of firing nuclear ballistic missiles were, and of course all the people in between that and the 267 people who died in that terrible tragedy and Ronald Reagan.  Just thought that was an interesting tidbit to mention on this thread after hearing about it on NPR just yesterday and I bet A LOT of people didn't know about that.  :) 

 

 

Hatem, thanks for the history lesson.

I knew that they had one for military, and one for civilian use, but did not know what brought it all about.

I will see if I if I have some longer videos.

Just wanted to give you and others a little taste of the boating that The Great Lakes has to offer.

When I read the post by Stuart, about if he wanted to go on another waterway that he had to pay, it made me think just how grateful we boaters should be, that we have what we have available to us here in the USA. I have trailered my girl and rented other boats, all over these States and Canada, and the only restrictions were, license plates for the trailer&boat, and sometimes a ramp fee.

Living here in The States, when you are young, you don't realize what you have and how good you have it. AS you mature and grow old or older, you start to realise what others don't have. 

As for all the law enforcement agencies, I am thankful they are there and glad to see them, if you play by the rules there are no hassles. They are there to help and keep our waters safe. Sure sometimes people will flex their muscles, but that is human nature, I personally have not had any issues, that could not be handled with a little sugar, and a yes sir or yes ma'am. 

My one son got me this sweat shirt, this says it all for me. (This is not me in the picture, copied it off the net, but mine is just like it).

If someone knows of another group of lakes that can compare with these, please let me know, I would love to see them.  Denny. 

    Image result for the great lakes no sharks and sand unsalted

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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 1:32 AM, Denny said:

I knew that they had one for military, and one for civilian use, but did not know what brought it all about.

Yeah man, no problem and sorry about the length of that post.  I try to compress it as much as possible, but when it's a topic with a lot of details, it's tough to do that lol!  But it makes for fun back & forth if this is the kinda thing that interests one, obviously like yours truly and this thread by Willie was a good place to talk about the history of the advent of the GPS to civilian usage, and of course, the precision aspect of it.  If we're capable of getting locations as precise as even 3 feet or even better in some cases, imagine what the military is able to do.

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 1:32 AM, Denny said:

When I read the post by Stuart, about if he wanted to go on another waterway that he had to pay, it made me think just how grateful we boaters should be, that we have what we have available to us here in the USA. I have trailered my girl and rented other boats, all over these States and Canada, and the only restrictions were, license plates for the trailer&boat, and sometimes a ramp fee.

Living here in The States, when you are young, you don't realize what you have and how good you have it. AS you mature and grow old or older, you start to realise what others don't have. 

Oh most definitely.   I tell people that all the time. 

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 1:32 AM, Denny said:

My one son got me this sweat shirt, this says it all for me. (This is not me in the picture, copied it off the net, but mine is just like it).

If someone knows of another group of lakes that can compare with these, please let me know, I would love to see them.  Denny. 

Yeah, Delaney was rubbing it in on my paddle boarding thread too! :D 

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On 1/15/2020 at 10:20 AM, Iggy said:

Being off 10 feet+/- is not a big deal at all. More so for us saltwater boaters up here in Boston.  Case in point, take any Nav buoy in Boston Harbor. We have 12 to 14 foot tides. That means that bouy can move plus or minus 12 to 14 feet from center in any direction. Thats a 24 to 26 ft swing. Now is the buoy in that exact location? Most likely it is not, so you have that error. Willie is showing a lot more than a 10 foot error. Plus you have not taken into account that the DOD has has civilian GPS accuracy to about 5 meters. So it can be off be 16 ft.  So if you get into your slip and your GPS show you half way or little more into the next slip, thats normal.

    

Be off by 3 feet here in NC where I'm at and you're boat will be sitting on top of a shoal or the bottom of the drink.

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Fog & stiff wind while approaching   a smaller inlet with assorted opposite  traffic.   :)

Been there as a passenger. I just put on a life jacket And hoped for the best. 

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5 hours ago, Water Dawg 6 said:

Be off by 3 feet here in NC where I'm at and you're boat will be sitting on top of a shoal or the bottom of the drink.

You would dare to get that close to begin with?  

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Decades ago the Barnagat Lighthouse inlet was a cutie in bad combinations of weather & boat traffic. 

Sea breeze blowing straight into  a high tide with submerged big rock edges.  Commercial offshore fish boats leaving with big wakes.  They would NEVER pass each other in the inlet. 1 would wait in the calmer bay.  A loaded returning fisher HAD to take the center of the inlet. Then plow right in with any non commercial boats.  Lots of boats scrapped the boulders. They finally really widened  it. 

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21 hours ago, Iggy said:

You would dare to get that close to begin with?  

Don't have a choice here. Some of the waterways are very narrow to include the ICW and then out of knowhere you'll have a huge Barg coming directly at you and your forced to go to the left or right of it and 6 inches of water can be right next to your boat.  Sometimes you get lucky and there's enough room for you to wait for the Barg to come through but most of the time nope.  Also, the creeks and rivers leading to the ocean inlets simply have Shoals everywhere that are constantly moving.  Then the locals mark trails with PVC pipe throwing everything off.  Last summer I was directly centered between the green and red buoys on the ICW and I ran aground - hitting a shoal that wasn't on my paper map or GPS Chartplotter.  

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Been though the ICW. Great prime rib at Coinjock!!  But your not really going to use your GPS (in the fog is anther story) in the ICW other than to pin point land marks and alike. Ok maybe Cape Hatteras, Norfolk, a few others and some river crossings. But for the most part your in canals or rivers. At junctions, you just look for the yellow squares on the day markers. To run the ICW at night or in the fog is just crazy unless you live there and know the waters that well. 

 

But we are talking about GPS accuracy yes?

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11 hours ago, Iggy said:

Been though the ICW. Great prime rib at Coinjock!!  But your not really going to use your GPS (in the fog is anther story) in the ICW other than to pin point land marks and alike. Ok maybe Cape Hatteras, Norfolk, a few others and some river crossings. But for the most part your in canals or rivers. At junctions, you just look for the yellow squares on the day markers. To run the ICW at night or in the fog is just crazy unless you live there and know the waters that well. 

 

But we are talking about GPS accuracy yes?

(at night or in the fog is just crazy unless you live there)

Boated in both. When you loose visual, it really kicks up your adrenalin. 

It makes it a lot easier when you have a second set of eyes.

There are some routes that I have created to get from one place to another, and totally trust them, because I was there in the day time and put in the waypoints as I passed the buoys. The buoys may move, but my waypoints stay where I put them. Denny.

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7 hours ago, Denny said:

(at night or in the fog is just crazy unless you live there)

Boated in both. When you loose visual, it really kicks up your adrenalin. 

It makes it a lot easier when you have a second set of eyes.

There are some routes that I have created to get from one place to another, and totally trust them, because I was there in the day time and put in the waypoints as I passed the buoys. The buoys may move, but my waypoints stay where I put them. Denny.

Yep! And you may have followed your past tracks too.

 

Love the ICW, at times its boring and it times the views are just great. The other thing too, the trees! They fall into the canals, so those you need to watch for too.   

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On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 8:20 AM, Water Dawg 6 said:

Be off by 3 feet here in NC where I'm at and you're boat will be sitting on top of a shoal or the bottom of the drink.

This is the only set I have that shows where I am compared to the GPS location using G-2 Vision.  I'd say it's pretty darn spot on.  But I'll be checking my G-3 at the slip and with several buoys to get exactly how accurate it is.

XYPxCFw.jpg

I'd say it's pretty darn close.  I remember comparing some of the markers in Boston Harbor on my G3 and they were close to exact.  I just never took pics, but I will.  And actual measurements as this whole accuracy is pretty interesting.

kmQsuNz.jpg?1

We always cut through these two boueys which mark the channel coming in and out of Salem harbor to and from our marina which is pinched between the Ferry station and the House of the Seven Gables.  So the ferry actually takes the same route and goes right between those two channel markers which aren't very wide, but enough to share with other boats coming from the opposite direction, but not the ferry lol!  The wake speed markers are about 350 yards away from that tight, little channel marker and depending on which ferry and who's the captain, that guy goes screaming through that channel doing at least 40+ knots maybe even more!  He plows through that thing until he reaches the no-wake markers which are right before Winter Park and the ramp we all use.  So because of that crazy basterd looool, I leave him A LOT of distance if we happen to be there at the same time he's coming or going whichever the case might be at the time because you don't want any part of the after-effects of that catamaran style hull on that gaddam thing and the tremendous wake it leaves in its shadow. 

I don't know if you can see them, even though I enlarged the pic but right at the bow of the boat to port & strbd of it they're right there and probably 200-300ft between them.  So you can imagine with bigger boats going through that, it gets pretty tight and using the GPS is good until you reach visual range, then it's mostly just by eye that you have to judge what to do.  But that's just one example.

QiiGlh2.jpg?2

 

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 8:35 AM, cyclops2 said:

Fog & stiff wind while approaching   a smaller inlet with assorted opposite  traffic.   :)

Been there as a passenger. I just put on a life jacket And hoped for the best. 

That's when you have to crank the radar and put it on overlay so you can see not only your breadcrumbs and which way you came, but of course other boats which is probably the scariest thing of all, not to mention polar settings because one thing I've learned really quickly about fog is the inevitable speed at which you lose your orientation.  It's truly frightening without a GPS and of course, a very good radar.  Check out those islands slowly being engulfed by that fog.

HtmSlkp.jpg

00iJpZ0.jpg

DHrDuU9.jpg

LOL!

ATn5J49.jpg

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 1:32 AM, Denny said:

I will see if I if I have some longer videos.

I found a pretty cool video of us going through that famous Blyman bridge in Gloucester, following a larger cruiser and you can see the effect of his wake on us.  I probably should've left a bit more distance between him and us but it worked out ok, just pushed us a bit to portside but I was able to correct it.  The thing is to not panic and make small corrections.  When you start to over-compensate, that's when you get in trouble.  I'll post it as soon as I  can get it on YT or maybe I'll try Vimeo like you.

 

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I lived in Florida half of my life, spent a few years in California and have boated all around the U.S. I can tell you that there is no place more dangerous than NC.  While the fishing is great and river, canals, sounds and surounding ocean accesses and waterways provide for alot of fun and are a boater dream.  You can not trust electronic GSP Maps, Charts or paper maps for that matter.  Best boating area ever and it offers something for everyone, but a good Captain will always still have his/her butt puckered here.  

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