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drummer22

2001 220 SSI - Rattle noise?

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21 minutes ago, drummer22 said:

My Chap doesn't have the muffler option.. its all thru the rear.

Here's one more video for you from inside the boat. It's not the drive.

 

 

Edit: I should say that the noise could also be caused by a leaky exhaust allowing water reversion into the cylinders. Ours was the head gasket. If compression is good, I would think it is the exhaust. Either way, the popping is the valvetrain. I can hear it plain as day in your videos.

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Your video makes it look like the prop is really sloppy, like a wheel on a shot wheel bearing.  Is it an optical illusion, not as bad as it looks? 1/8" in and out is normal on an alpha but it looked like a lot of side play.

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I thought so, too. Maybe it was the camera angle.  :scratchchin:

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Sure could be a lifter  /  rocker arm / bent pushrod going. 

Remove valve cover 1 at a time to feel shocks on the rocker arms.   Get lucky.   

Question  Why did it fail ?  Will more be following it ?

Metal bits from a failed  /  never changed  oil filter can ruin the lifters.

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16 hours ago, drummer22 said:

Correction-  I have a Alpha 1 (Gen II)

 

Also.. Ran by the boat during lunch.. check this out! Is the propeller supposed to be this loose? Sorry this is my first boat (only 6 months) but I have 15+ years of working on automotive.. my gut feeling says no. Plus its pretty close to the same rattle noise! 

This movement is only lateral (up and down) and not side to side... not really as extreme as the photo.. like 1/4" of play. The locking nut looked tight.

 

 

Time to pull the prop and see what has failed or is missing like the forward thrust washer as mentioned. Likely you have found the source of your noise. In any event stop running the thing as a minor issue will quickly turn into a major one. W

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16 hours ago, SG Boater said:

Your video makes it look like the prop is really sloppy, like a wheel on a shot wheel bearing.  Is it an optical illusion, not as bad as it looks? 1/8" in and out is normal on an alpha but it looked like a lot of side play.

Video defiantly exaggerates the movement.. It really closer to 1/8" in a single direction (up / down motion). Luckly I was able to check out the same make / model last night.. He had the exact same movement too (Alpha 1 and same prop)

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+1 that the prop video looks terrible, however the engine sound is EXACTLY like my head gasket failure.  

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Compression tests will prove you. Even a vacuum gauge will also show a blown head gasket.  If it it is blowing between 2 close cylinders.

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1 hour ago, IndyChap said:

+1 that the prop video looks terrible, however the engine sound is EXACTLY like my head gasket failure.  

Me too as the videos show...OP is beating around the Bush at this point. :beer-7687-1:

Cant blame him...its a major repair.

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1 hour ago, IndyChap said:

+1 that the prop video looks terrible, however the engine sound is EXACTLY like my head gasket failure.  

Well, that's two head gasket votes......  Drew's video sounds different on my laptop, but if Indy and Drew both heard it live on their boats and it sounds like the posted video, they make a good case. Sux for the OP.......

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3 hours ago, tomnjo said:

Well, that's two head gasket votes......  Drew's video sounds different on my laptop, but if Indy and Drew both heard it live on their boats and it sounds like the posted video, they make a good case. Sux for the OP.......

I wouldn't be adamant if I didn't just go through this LOL :slap:

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9 hours ago, drewm3i said:

I wouldn't be adamant if I didn't just go through this LOL :slap:

You were adamant?   :haha-7383:        Your video did have a lower pitch but you did hear it live, so I defer to your experience....  :)

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54 minutes ago, tomnjo said:

You were adamant?   :haha-7383:        Your video did have a lower pitch but you did hear it live, so I defer to your experience....  :)

His video seems to be much higher quality. The noise in the video was identical to mine in person.

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Finally found a marine mechanic today! Crazy how busy everyone is.. im guessing COVID is pushing more people to the water.. 

Im going to run a compression test sometime in the next few days - while waiting for the mechanic to free up. Keep fingers crossed.

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Update - Still waiting on a mechanic.. and its driving me crazy! So I have done a few things since the request.. hopefully they can get out there next week for a compression test and a quick drive.

1) Update the propeller  https://propshopinc.com/14x17rh-4-blade-quicksilver-nemesis-propeller-8m0055534/ . That was a super easy swap (keep in mind I'm a new boater..)

2) Greased up the three grease fittings with Quicksilver per recommendation

3) Took out for a drive yesterday - noise still there.. anchored and enjoyed the sun for a few hours.. limped slowly back home.

4) Today - I took off the exhaust bellows at the elbow.. check out what I found... :o Starboard flapper missing!!!! Port looked "okay" but pretty old. Went ahead and ordered new OEM flappers. 

Question.. Im assuming the missing piece of the flapper is downstream of the exhaust? It appears to be constructed of metal, coated with rubber. I really doubt the exhaust can "pass the stone" (ouch, lol) and the flapper is liking in the bellow between the transom and the outboard drive?

I pushed my inspection camera down the y-pipe and didst see anything.. infact it looked really clean in there!

 

https://i.ibb.co/Jxcdm7K/z4.jpg 
https://i.ibb.co/DWCw2xv/z1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/ypnsSV7/z2.jpg 
https://i.ibb.co/G9B3cGH/z3.jpg 

Im assuming the exhaust passes only thru the lower hose, right? Circled in red? If thats the case - maybe its in there?

https://i.ibb.co/rs28Ry3/Capture.png

 

 

 

 

 

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Replace the flappers. I wouldn't worry about finding the pieces...that isn't your noise. Mine were also gone as I bet most boater's are.

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3 hours ago, drewm3i said:

Replace the flappers. I wouldn't worry about finding the pieces...that isn't your noise. Mine were also gone as I bet most boater's are.

+1 the flapper isn’t the noise.  

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I've seen the flappers exit the drive on boats equipped with an exhaust sleeve, as it's open to the ocean when the drive is tilted full up, but never with a bellows like yours. I've also never seen one exit the drive down the leg and through the prop as the passage is just too small. If it were me, I'd keep looking as that stainless plate will restrict exhaust flow at some point, if it ends up in the wrong place or at the wrong angle.  W

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 Exhaust back pressure at higher RPMs is never good. It could set off a overheat alarm randomly.

Do a Wingnut job on the exhaust. It is a must at this point.

 

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10 hours ago, Wingnut said:

I've seen the flappers exit the drive on boats equipped with an exhaust sleeve, as it's open to the ocean when the drive is tilted full up, but never with a bellows like yours. I've also never seen one exit the drive down the leg and through the prop as the passage is just too small. If it were me, I'd keep looking as that stainless plate will restrict exhaust flow at some point, if it ends up in the wrong place or at the wrong angle.  W

yeppers! Will do - going to pull the bellow between the stern "y-pipe" and the prop inlet. Order a replacement too.

 

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20 hours ago, IndyChap said:

+1 the flapper isn’t the noise.  

Finally paid somebody half down to pull a compression test on Thursday. Picking up new spark plugs tomorrow (might as well swapp them out if your pull'n them)

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Well the results are in! Too bad its not in house favor...

  • Cylinder 2 - 160
  • Cylinder 4 - 155
  • Cylinder 6 - 154
  • Cylinder 8 - 154
  • Cylinder 1 - 160
  • Cylinder 3 - 45
  • Cylinder 5 - 41
  • Cylinder 7 - 175 

For those who dont know.. small contribution to the forum...

Cylinders 2,4,6,8 are the left side if you're looking at the engine (starboard) - 

 Cylinders 1,3,5,7 are the right side again. Looking at the engine (port) side (which is where I found the broken exhaust flapper)

Good news - no hydrolock. 

Mystery  - why is cylinder 7 so high? He checked it several times too.. And also think its odd that the engine sounds perfect at idle and low RPMs? 

Before going about replacing both gaskets / checking the heads.. is there anything else we should look at? Like valves?? If it was overheated - Im assuming I would hear an alarm right? (we hear the alarm's test beep every time the ignition is turned on)

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I don't think the flapper caused the blown head gasket, but now is your time to go through the boat a replace anything that is suspect. I highly recommend you read through my restoration thread as I just went through all of this. Off the top of my head I would:

1) replace both head gaskets and have both heads machined. Overheating can cause warping of surfaces.

2)replace flappers

3) do a full tune up of cap, rotor, plugs, wires, etc.

4) paint the engine block and heads if it needs it.

5) inspect and replace the starter if it looks bad (easy to get to with the heads off)

6) replace intake manifold gaskets as it will have to come off

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Sounds like the gasket may have blown just between 3 and 5? Had that happen on my old Merc 140 4 banger. Head gasket blew through between 2 and 3. No water in oil, no overheating, just sounded like crap at higher speeds.

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So are we warned that a leaking head gasket does not always need to sound like a puffing steam engine. The sparkplugs are your MOST RELIABLE indicator of a problem in a cylinder / cylinders. Toss in the Compression Test and you are looking mostly  outside of the guts of the engine. Always remove the heads carefully. You can sometimes see the path of a TRUE defective gasket A small channel of color from cylinder to water or oil  systems. I have never found a leak from cylinder to atmospheric air  pressure surface.

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